is 22 magnum better on fox then a hummer?

[Plowboy]

Not sure that moderators do much to quieten down anything traveling over about 1000fps. Something it do with breaking the sound barrier and producing a mini sonic boom.
I guess there would be a little reduction in overall noise from muzzle blast containment, but not much that you would notice.

Where did I say anything about silencing? It lowers the report, lowers muzzle blast and can reduce recoil. Jesus are we gonna start that shit again???? Read the supressor thread.

[badger74]

Not sure that moderators do much to quieten down anything traveling over about 1000fps. Something it do with breaking the sound barrier and producing a mini sonic boom.
I guess there would be a little reduction in overall noise from muzzle blast containment, but not much that you would notice.

Where did I say anything about silencing? It lowers the report, lowers muzzle blast and can reduce recoil. Jesus are we gonna start that shit again???? Read the supressor thread.

Hey, take a deep breath and calm down, or people might think you just behaved like a wanker!

[aim2please]

what twist rate are 22 magnums usually?

Im guessing 1:16 like 22.lr as the standard load is 40 grains.

I tired 50 grain loads in my anchultz (i think its spelt wrong dont kill me! ) they weren't that accurate, im guessing because of the slower twist barrel, though they weren't keyholing

love it! Although im sure you meant tried, hey keith????

Yes i did

[Plowboy]

Not sure that moderators do much to quieten down anything traveling over about 1000fps. Something it do with breaking the sound barrier and producing a mini sonic boom.
I guess there would be a little reduction in overall noise from muzzle blast containment, but not much that you would notice.

Where did I say anything about silencing? It lowers the report, lowers muzzle blast and can reduce recoil. Jesus are we gonna start that shit again???? Read the supressor thread.

Hey, take a deep breath and calm down, or people might think you just behaved like a wanker!

Hmmm impressions eh!

[fenring]

Thing is that everyone wants a rifle that can tick all of the boxes but we all know that is never going to be with current technology. Now why would most people go for a rimfire? IMO cheap, quiet and easy on body damage(for eating). HMR is really none of these if you think about it. Not really that cheap, a bit louder than a .22 and if you hit 'em in the guts they make a hell of a mess. As I said I have never shot a WMR but I would think that it may fit this a little better but really both the HMR and the WMR are an attempt to get more performance than a .22lr. The .22lr fits all the boxes of a rimfire. Cheap, quiet(even moreso with subs) and easy on meat.

You raise some good points - as far as "cheap", TBH if I can spend $20-28 on a box of 50 HMR rounds, I know that it's going to put the better part of 50 nights feed in my dog tucker fridge - so it's worth it. Also, it's fun - and TBH it's a cheap sport when compared to many others.

If you want more performance CFs are the go but due to our stupid firearms the noise factor goes out the window. They can be cheap if you reaload(a big advantage over rimfire) but otherwise a bit expensive and meat can be flung all over the shop.

Foxes to the best of my knowlegde are not eaten and pelts are worthless so I reckon blow 'em to bits!

I have considered a .22CF myself, but TBH it's not going to be ideal for most of what I do close to home - mostly rabbits, hares and the occasional fox as you say. It just wouldn't be worth owning such a one trick horse, not could I be bothered spending the hours doing all the loading - in summer I can shoot off 100 rounds a week at vermin. Bugger doing all that loading - I'd sooner be doing the shooting!

Every new calibre comes under attack from the old school shooting crowd. Whether it is justified or just fear of change is another thing but the HMR is good enough for what it is designed for. Rabbits and the occasional fox.

True, and many new calibres die the quick death they deserve for various reasons. Thus far the HMR is going strong so people who own them must reckon they are OK for their purpose - which is likely just what you described.

[220]

I said earlier in my experience the 22mag is a better fox round.
I have shot enough of them with both to form an opinion based on what I have seen.
Accuracy wise there is nothing between them out of my quad they both shoot 1/2" at 50m the best my Rossi HMR does is 3/4" at the same distance and a Savage 22mag/20ga combination gun will do 3/4" as well.
The 17HMR has an edge in trajectory but with better loads the 22mag it isn't far behind. If someone claims they can get reliable hits at 200m with the HMR they would have just as good an average at 175m with the 22Mag.
The 22mag has an advantage in ammo cost and range of projectiles.
I made the mistake of taking the 17HMR out spotlighting while targeting foxes but only did it once. The 222 is my spotlighting fox rifle.
They will both take foxes out to 120m I just find the 22mag more effective. I guess effectiveness isn't based solely on energy figures. It is a bit like comparing a 223 and 44mag similar energy but which one is more reliable on pigs.
The 22mag is a bigbore rimfire while the HMR is a small bore.

[Plowboy]

Thanks 220. Well put. Can you get vmax rounds in WMR? only ones I have seen(long time ago) were the same as .22lr rounds.

[fenring]

The 222 is my spotlighting fox rifle.

Which is along the lines of what I suggested would be the best ages ago before all the "I hate the HMR" crowd came along.

[220]

Thanks 220. Well put. Can you get vmax rounds in WMR? only ones I have seen(long time ago) were the same as .22lr rounds.

Yes you can, I've only used the hornady 30gr V-max and Remington 33gr V-Max, I know CCI do one as well. They do flaten the trajectory a bit but you loose a little in energy. Plenty of other options as well just looked in the ammo cage to see what I had
Hornady 30gr V-Max
Federal Premium 30gr Speer TNT HP
CCI Maxi Mag 30gr Speer TNT HP
CCI Maxi Mag +V 30gr HP?
Remington Premier 33gr V-Max
Remington 40gr JHP
PMC Predator 40gr JSP
PMX 40gr JHP
Winchester Power Point 40gr lead HP
Federal Game Shock 50gr JHP
CCI Maxi Mag 50gr Speer Gold Dot HP
as you can see there is quite a selection, quite a few other options as well. 40gr solids are available and just about every manufacturer makes a 40gr HP or SP.
The Win Power Point is a copper washed lead projectile (similar to the 22lr power point) @ approx 1600fps.The 50gr loads ave around the same velocity. I and others have cronographed some of the 30gr loads averaging over 2350fps. So there is something available for just about any situation you would use a 22mag not like the old days when you were limited to 40gr loads from a couple of manufacturers.
Would not suprise me if there were 50 different load combinations/brands available for the 22mag. Puts paid to the idea the magnum is on the way out. Ammo makers only produce what sells and for this much variation there must be a hell of a market for 22mag ammo.

[fenring]

Trying to breathe life into the old fart I reckon.

[220]

Fenring

I know you want one.

Just give in to the urge no one will think less of you.

[fenring]

I'm still holding out for the long heralded return of the 5mm Remington myself.....

[andrewk]

fenring you've proven yourself a hate everything not hummer kinda guy. i got a hummer and i'm not a hater of it. i was looking at the floor of my ute on the way to work this arvo and low and behold there's empty hummer cases everywhere. also found 204 brass, 22lr and shotgun shells, haven't fired anything else in a while out of it except 308. so who's in the hummer hater crowd your on about? anyway like i said you got my back up the first time in my post about flanking shots on foxes.

viewtopic.php?t=7421

when i agreed with you in that post to start of with you begin to parade photo's of that pig then slag me on my abilities and your big surprise comments and that foxes in my areas must be tougher..... and maybe the are. me being new to the forum then thought "gees whats with this guy?" and let it go but then you did it again here so now i'm thinking wtf kind of moderator are you?? a pretty bloddy arrogant one by the looks of it. also your statement that the 30gr 22mag loads fall of to the hummer at 80m is bs.

here's some ballistics out to 200yds for you.

cci 22wmr 30gr vmax's

Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.118 G1 Caliber: 0.224 in
Bullet Weight: 30.0 gr

Muzzle Velocity: 2200.0 ft/s

Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph

Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft

Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 0.000 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA

Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.5 ft/s

Maximum PBR: 208 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 181 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 106 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 82.1 ft•lbs

Sectional Density: 0.085 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2200.0 1.970 322.4 0.000 0.0 ***
25 -1.7 -6.6 0.2 0.9 2029.6 1.818 274.4 0.035 6.2 23.9
50 -2.5 -4.8 1.0 2.0 1867.4 1.673 232.2 0.074 13.0 24.9
75 -3.9 -5.0 2.4 3.1 1714.0 1.535 195.7 0.116 20.4 26.0
100 -6.0 -5.8 4.5 4.3 1570.6 1.407 164.3 0.162 28.5 27.2
125 -9.0 -6.9 7.2 5.5 1438.8 1.289 137.9 0.212 37.2 28.4
150 -13.1 -8.3 10.8 6.9 1320.6 1.183 116.2 0.266 46.8 29.8
175 -18.4 -10.0 15.2 8.3 1218.1 1.091 98.8 0.325 57.2 31.2
200 -25.2 -12.0 20.5 9.8 1133.6 1.015 85.6 0.389 68.5 32.7

02/02/10 09:05, JBM/jbmtraj_simp-5.0.cgi



and cci 17hmr 17gr vmax's

Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.130 G1 Caliber: 0.172 in
Bullet Weight: 17.0 gr

Muzzle Velocity: 2550.0 ft/s

Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph

Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft

Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 0.000 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA

Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.5 ft/s

Maximum PBR: 241 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 209 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 123 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 57.6 ft•lbs

Sectional Density: 0.082 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2550.0 2.284 245.4 0.000 0.0 ***
25 -1.7 -6.4 0.2 0.7 2381.6 2.133 214.1 0.030 5.4 20.5
50 -2.2 -4.3 0.7 1.4 2219.6 1.988 185.9 0.063 11.1 21.2
75 -3.2 -4.1 1.7 2.2 2063.9 1.849 160.8 0.098 17.3 22.0
100 -4.7 -4.5 3.2 3.1 1914.7 1.715 138.4 0.136 23.9 22.8
125 -6.8 -5.2 5.2 4.0 1772.6 1.588 118.6 0.177 31.1 23.7
150 -9.6 -6.1 7.8 4.9 1638.3 1.467 101.3 0.221 38.8 24.7
175 -13.3 -7.2 11.0 6.0 1513.0 1.355 86.4 0.268 47.2 25.8
200 -17.8 -8.5 14.9 7.1 1397.8 1.252 73.7 0.320 56.3 26.9

02/02/10 09:03, JBM/jbmtraj_simp-5.0.cgi

if they don't look right to you then work it out your self but 22 mag kills the same 17hmr ammo i use even out to 200yds energy wise and gives up a few inches in drop.


anyway thanks sean for your veiws on the 22mag and also sharing your experience with the hummer. i had a shocker night with it once too going out just for foxes and left the property feeling like a real c#*t. don't like wounding animals even if there are feral. looking at the ammo available and it being a bit cheaper makes it a little more appealing. my gunsmith once said to me after listening me bang on about the latest and great super fast small cal cartridge said "you know andrew, velocity isn't everything." your 223/44mag comparison reminded me of that discussion with my smith.

anyway early today i was thinking fark the whole 22mag idea but then again now, thanks to helpful posts, i want to do it. but can i give up the hummer?

so thanks to those who've contributed to my thread, i assure you it wasn't a tire kicking waste of time since i got some info to help quell my needs for that perfect cartridge

then my gunsmith will tell me i'm wasting my time

[native hunter]

You dont think it's going to end here do you.!!
Native

[andrewk]

seemed a good idea last night....