Informal Poll !

[a.JR]

Hi All , I am always looking for ways to get more shooters to come try their guns at Long Range Benchrest..I know in my own mind that if i could get more bums on *seats* at the matchs then the fall out from this would end up with more guys building new guns for the exsisting 2 classes that we shoot now.. Some clubs in The US run a Factory class ,very low key and the sanctions do not include this in the program or rules ..The advent of the Savage BR rifles being made by a factory has changed the goal posts to the stage where you have to have one of these to play the game .. While i'm certainly not adverse to a single manufacturer type platform there are for sure a lot more Varmint style rifles available out there in the hands of the public .. What i would like to ask is if a Varmint style Class were introduced into LRBR at say 500 to 1000 yds would you vote with your feet and come over to shoot it at the ranges available across this big wide land????( remember this is only for Long Range ) ..JR..Jeff Rogers

[doidge5781]

I live in castlemaine where the only 2 close ranges shoot fullbore and fclass for the past 5 years the only centrefire i owned capable of shooting groups was my howa .223 i would loved to take it to the range to try it out at measured distance but for a newbie to long range shooting starting at 600 yrds was very daunting. If however they had a match for varmint rifles shot prone from a bipod or bag at smaller targets say rabbits at distances from 100 to 300 i would have joined up str8 away scoring coould be points x group size. Most varmint rifles and factory ammo would handle this with ease and wouldnt need much holdover or practice to hit rabbits at 300 and would build the newer shooters confidence at trying longer distance and disciplines.

Just my 2c

[Con]

a.JR,
Well ... I'm trying to set up the Sportco for this style of shooting on a budget. I suppose my fear is that it's bloody expensive to compete and have a chance of winning. Those that take it seriously will always buy performance and that's the point where I'm lost.

Now, winning is not everything, but there has to be some rewards for your efforts. Perhaps a varmint class (define varmint!) where a rabbit is in the centre will draw some out. Perhaps prizes for shooting a certain score and setting up a few of those in the bottom to mid range would help.

Maybe play like F-class and run a 'Standard class' which is open to non-wildcat chamberings only?

What would make me shoot more often ... a range next door! Being located in Shepparton narrows my choices down. The odds of me traveling interstate as a beginner is non-existant, there needs to be some competition to bring me through the ranks before considering travel. Maybe more informal FLY events need to be run on ranges across the country?
Cheers...
Con

[GJS]

I feel LRBR popularity is a classic catch 22, if there were more ranges and clubs there would be more shooters, if there were more shooters there would be more ranges.
Australia is a big country with lots of k's to drive but doesn't have many suitable locations for 1k ranges close to where the people are.
I would join the local big bore club if they setup a 1000yard international benchrest shoot.
It could only help every one if all the different association cooperated.
Glenn

[a.JR]

Guys , If you want a new style of shoot it is as simple as someone doing the hard yards to get it up and running.. In 2000 i went out and did just that to get the second range in AUST shooting 1000yd Benchrest , in 2007 i went out and did the yards to get the 1st 600yd benchrest events happening.. All it takes is the want and need and a bunch of time and effort .. That said this poll i hoped was to gather info on adapting to the existing Long Range events that are in place in AUST.. I'm sure there would be support for Varmint target events or the camoflarge style matchs but these cannot be expected to be tac on to the matchs already running and successfull .. Personally i think that the single brand limited equipment class's that are so popular in Motor Racing is the way because it removes the need for policing ,but hey what would i know ,i have tried a bunch of different stuff at my home range over the years and all have petered out after a time ..JR

[doidge5781]

In my opinion the biggest turn off for new shooters in target fields is cost of setting up a decent competitive rifle i think target shooting would benefit from a new class of shooting aimed at lower entry level stuff say factory rifles and even factory ammo as well as a grading system similar to that used in ACTA where a new shooter gets graded on his first 200 hundred targets and be competitive against people of similar experiance for me turning up to an event that i have not shot before with maybe $2000 worth of equipment and competing against you with $10,000 worth as well as thousands of rounds of experiance at reading wind and such is not something that really would interest most new shooters because they will always be behind no matter what.

[stinkitup]

Jeff what your proposing is exactly how I got interested in BR, I started taking the old swede to the odd Fly shoot and enjoyed it enough to have sinced purchased an omark to hopefully improve. I think what your talking about is a good way to get new people involved, by making it a one make series would perhaps limit people but also make it easier to rule on I guess. I mean whether we call it factory or Varmint you could turn up with a savage lrpv in 6br which basically uses the target action.

Other thing is like others have said how many 1000yd benchrest ranges have we got in AU? For sure their are alot of 1000yd capable ranges but sometimes its pretty hard to convice the right people it would be a plus Cessnock range is less than 20mins for and we shot at its limit on the weekend 900yds but not allowed even portable benches its really dissapointing. Cessnock got a huge grant a number of years ago to upgrade, would have been one of the best in NSW but for some reason those who had the say didn't want it

[Rinso]

Lots of valid comment here guys, but, yes theres always a but ... if you want a factory class or an entry level class then the first thing that needs to happen is for shooters to turn up to matches.
Nobody is going to spend a lot of time and energy arranging all this on the basis that someone might turn up and want to shoot it. First you must show a demand for it then clubs will be more inclined to come on board.
Shane Clancy runs 2 x 300m Fly shoots, Wagga held one last year, Pete Van Muers held a training day 500m Fly event at Little River not long ago ... all these are excellent starting points for LRBR.
My next question who attended these events????????

[GJS]

Wagga and Leeton both ran a factory/hunter class in the 300 fly events.Factory target rifles, ie the Savages, went in the costom class (I think).I dont recall any disputes over which class a rifle was put in so it shouldn't be to hard to do the same at 1000.
Glenn

[Mick]

Lots of valid comment here guys, but, yes theres always a but ... if you want a factory class or an entry level class then the first thing that needs to happen is for shooters to turn up to matches.
Nobody is going to spend a lot of time and energy arranging all this on the basis that someone might turn up and want to shoot it. First you must show a demand for it then clubs will be more inclined to come on board.
Shane Clancy runs 2 x 300m Fly shoots, Wagga held one last year, Pete Van Muers held a training day 500m Fly event at Little River not long ago ... all these are excellent starting points for LRBR.
My next question who attended these events????????

Pretty much.
A lot of time and effort is put into running these events. We cater for the people who turn up. If we have 10 LG and 10 HG shooters turn up, and 1 guy with a factory rifle, then that 1 guy is getting chucked in the LG class. There are just not enough people showing up with factory rifles to warrant a class of their own at this point.

I do however get tired of hearing the same old equipment complaints. I don't know how many times I have seen a guy with what is essentially a factory rifle with a little tweaking done spank the shit out of guys with rifles that cost 10K or more to build. The fact is you can't turn up to a 1K BR shoot and expect to have a hope in hell of winning for quite some time, no matter what gear you have. Even with a factory class there will come a point where some people get very good, and then we will have a cry for grading. Has anybody been paying any attention at all to hunter/factory class BR and how tough the competition is? The top shooters there would be doing well in the traditional classes against real bench guns.

Shoot because you enjoy it, rather than expecting to win every time. The day I start caring if I win or not is the day I will find another hobby, because it will just stop being fun at that point.

[a.JR]

Guys , Please don't get me wrong ,i don't need to change anything from a personal prospective..I am not trying to reinvent the wheel ,all i hoped for was to get more bums on seats in the matchs that already are being shot,but as said it starts with YOU turning up .. The $10000 dollar thing is getting a bit old hat for me as i'm competitive and my stuff cost no where near that amount.. A .you need gear that can land a bullet on a target at the distance you have chosen and B you need to get shooting with it .. Don't expect to knock off small group and high score on ya second match ,IMO you have to have some form of learning curve 1st, which can be a bunch of fun anyhow..JR..PS If anything were to happen about alternate classes it has to start with talking about it,hence my post

[Mick]

Completely agree with you JR. Only way it will happen is if people get themselves organised to turn up.

I'm just making the point that the price of your gear does not make you any more competitive, as you and many others have proven. A good shooter with a factory rifle having a good day could turn up and wipe the floor with everybody at any given event.

[albow]

JR I think that 600yds or 550yd BR as we are currently shooting is where it is at for a shooter to start with a factory / varmint rifle.

The reason I say this is 1000yd cannot be done with a factory / varmint rifle and as outline not too many ranges to shoot at.

The 600 target is 'forgiving' enough not to completely demoralise the new shooter as they will be able to start shooting fairly reasonable scores and groups for the day. This as you will remember is where I started with my 223 varmint rifle sending 55gn pills down range. I was able to shoot around 170 points for score and group aggs of around 9 inches. If you look at these results and compare to the last 550 match we shot the group agg suffered a bit and to be expected with the small pills (would have been better if a 6mm ) but I would have been fourth last on score overall and then only 10 points behind some quality dedicated BR guns.............. all with my bunny basher = keen to try again.

I also tried shooting the fly during this initial period when I started with the same rifle and have to say that this would no doubt stop people wanting to shoot a factory / varmint gun as I was only scoring 20 - 30 points and then streets behind the other shooters = demoralised shooter not ever to come back as you no doubt have seen.

The disappointing thing though is that we have tried the factory / varmint class with no real success why I am not sure. Maybe because when we have shot 600 there were no real non BR shooters around to see what we are doing as we were shooting on Sunday arvo's however the past 5 matches shot on Saturday mornings has not seen too many come and look either.

Anyone down south that wanted to try the 550yd BR shoot as we are running it would may be onto a good thing to try and get factory shooters in. Rules allow for muzzle brakes so the shooters with their 300win mags or 338 can have a go just like a good varmint rig.

[a.JR]

Donk ,Donk, this thing still on.. JR