Hi Bagman , yeah the rifle i shot was my now prone rifle Anschutz 2013 with the long 690mm barrel. As for all you people that have sakos with a p94s action , i was talking to a guy at last weeks RBA at Cecil park. He said that he was unhappy even with the set trigger, he said Peter from Procal trading in Vic can machine a remington stlye 700 jewel trigger too fit.
Cheers Ron
Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
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Ron Goulding
- .223 Remington
- Posts: 400
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- Favourite Cartridge: .22lr
- Location: Syd
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Ackley Improved
- 6mm Dasher
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:24 pm
- Location: Albury
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Ah.. this thread has gone the same way as target cameras... what caused it to go this way? 
Cheers
Cheers
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Rex Watson shoots at cecil park most tuesday nights, benchrest in the finals range and he has one of the procal triggers ron is talking about. Sean i have shot your 199 with tin crap in a std brno with a pen spring and a shim on the front trigger pin on top of the sear it is no big deal br30 is harder. you want to piss people of,travel round the ranges of australia with a brno, afew tins of lapua and act like you know nothing, listen to people tell you you need a heavy barreled anschutz and watch the old guy in the corner sit back and laugh as he is the only one that cheeks out your target and realises you are flogging the blokes telling you to buy an anschutz. get over it! 22's like whatever ammo they like and thats it. most of my 22's will shoot lapua some batch numbers better than others, but only one of them will shoot r50. you are correct a droped round will usually impact outside the group, so will ammo stored on its side the same as ammo that travels in the boot will shoot slightly different to ammo that travels in the glove box. most shooters that shoot well with tin crap take it out of the tin and store it projectile down in other boxes for a while before they shoot it for this reason.ok your gun likes r50 so run with it. it does not mean other peoples will or that there is no other better ammo out there. as to if brett is a bushwacker or not he did build a rifle that shot 600. whatever out of 600 so he must have some idea of what he is doing and i do believe that is an A grade or better score. where you saying that a guy who can shoot good groups cannot shoot good score or where you saying that a guy who can shoot good score cannot shoot good groups or is this just true for the ammo as you implied earlier or did i miss read that.
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chris.tyne
- .270 Winchester
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:56 pm
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- Location: Usually underneath
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Hey Juzz I thought he was calling me a bushwacker of which I took offence to.............................Hillbilly yes Bushwacker no way,I am far to sophisticated to be a bushwacker.I would suspect that If the name calling was directed at Brett he wont be to impressed either,Either way I reckon there is only one WACKER in all of this and once again it is proven that you dont have to have a long neck to be a goose.
Regards Chris.
Regards Chris.
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
he probably was chirs i just assumed it was brett as he was writing something about him being a backyarder or hobby gunsmith or some crap the other day. i just think it is funny no body has agreed with him but he is still going. i am wondering if he is taking the piss? i have no doubt that R50 is good ammo. Its just not for everybody.
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Ron Goulding
- .223 Remington
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:51 pm
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- Location: Syd
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
I had a brick of R100 in the safe i bought some time ago,as so i decided to break it out for the big RBA shoot the other week at cecil park. I decided to give myself the chance of trying to lodge a score that we see me in the top 10, buy weighing them. I started out by weighing one pkt of 50, as there was no difference in weight what so ever , i decided to pluck one round at random from each row of the remainning brick, I found that they all weighed exactly the same. Even though i shot this ammo through my cm2 with a tuner and weights,from a bench with a 36pwr scope. If i had to say , its just that this particular rifle didnt like this particular batch of R100, and that i would have been better of using the can shite i have been shooting through it. Cheers Ron
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Most of you probably best know me for my LR BR crap. There was a time, a long time back when rimfires were a big part of my shooting. Hunter and BR50 mainly. What i know for certain about rimfires is that there is no way anyone that owns a good one should ever sell it thinking he will find or build a better one. Secondly anyone that reckons that they can guarantee a killer rimfire build has not built enough rimfires!!
There is no doubt that in this country right now there is a couple of factory standard Brnos that will and do run rings around many more expensive rifles. We have one in the Townsville club right now. Simply, it is a freak. But this is rare. There is also one Swindlehurst in this country that should never be used for anything more than plinking at tin cans. And no, it is not that one Trevor has for sale, even though the resemblance is striking.
Some years ago i looked at trying to work out a way of making rimfire rifles respond like a centerfire does like when you use the best components, you get the best results more often than not. What i discovered is that rimfires are not predictable because you cannot tune the ammunition to an individual barrel. The barrel must be tuned to the ammo.
At about this time i was doing a lot of work with stretcher tubes and muzzle breaks. The tubes worked so well on the centerfires that i had decided to try them with a rimfire. I also tried tuners on centerfires around this same time and discovered that they were too unpredictable from day to day, weather condition to weather condition etc. Tuners will never work on a centerfire like they do on a rimfire and a tube will never work on a rimfire like they do on a centerfire. There is clearly something quite different with a rimfire and a centrfire in regards to the way they behave in relation to harmonics. One is a very violent and overpowering source of rapid metal expansion and contraction that works its way up and down the barrel several times before the bullet exits the muzzle, whereas the other is a very subtle disturbance or vibration if you wish, at one end of a tube that eventually makes its way through to the muzzle. The number of cycles is irrelevant, but the fact that they do have an effect on impact is.
One thing that a rimfire shares in common with a centerfire is that they both require a bounce point for a consistent return to battery operation. Without this, neither will work very well. Recoil lugs are mostly used with the centerfire and with rimfires something else like the tang of the action etc is often employed. I fitted recoil lugs to all the pillar bedded rimfires i did, and with the glue-ins i either used a recoil lug or a very large squared off tang area or just simply milled a cross slot in the action belly that had glue lock it into place and act like a recoil lug.
What i found 99% of the time when a rimfire shot really well and conversely found 99% of the time why a rimfire shot poorly could be traced back to their ignition. The real hummer had a very repeatable lock up and firing pin delivery and the clunker had neither. Some actions have a clear edge on this ignition delivery and others don't. The Bruno has this edge as does the Rem 541 S and T and what this edge can offer is the ability to get the most consistent velocity spread than a brand of ammo has to offer. In my time not all groups were destroyed by bedding or a faulty crown or any other rifle ailment we can think of. Most were destroyed by poor ignition with either a headspace problem or a dragging or non aligning firing pin or one that protruded too far or not far enough. Weak or binding springs were another source of problems. Whatever the reason, the error showed up as a regular flier with no pattern of location on the target. With some of the actions i built i used multiple firing pins or pins striking at all points of the compass. But to be truthful, the regular 12 o'clock position of a single pin was no better or worse than what my other trials indicated. The dual pin thing showed no gain. Or loss.
What Merrill Martin did back in the hey day of BR50 was to test a lot of things that destroyed groups in order to find a way to improve them. He did all sorts of things that are not all that relevant here at this time, but one very simple thing is. He just used a chronograph to evaluate velocity spread. With a velocity spread of 20 fps, a rimfire bullet with a BC of a house brick at around 0.085 could in no way be expected to group better than 0.250" center to center in the vertical plane at the then competition distance of 50 yards. Add the bullet diameter of say 0.223" and you had a minimum group potential span of 0.473" or just a shade inside the worst edge scoring 100 ring of 0.500". So perfectly centered, this 0.250" group size was the minimum acceptable in order to get the perfect score if you read the wind right. But so few batches of ammo or ammo brands could do better than this 20 fps and this was the limiting factor for many.
The point of this is that no matter what amount of money you spend, and what rifle components you use, the ammo has the final say. You can be lucky and find that one in a thousand Brnos or spend the big bucks to build a work of art that looks the part but shoots like a pile of dog crap because the harmonics are wrong for the really great ammo, or the harmonics are right for the really crap ammo. Either way it will not shoot worth a cracker. The velocity spread may be in the zone or even better, but the barrel is up when it should be down and the group looks like shit.
Now let's add in the tuner. We won't get into another debate on why a tuner does or does not work, let's just say it does. The best way to utilize them is to firstly find that magic 20 fps ammo lot. Once you have found that, it makes little or no difference as to how it groups out of your rifle as the tuner can and will pull in the fliers from the poor barrel harmonics. A rifle with a tuner can never pull in a flier that is 20 fps outside the average and this is where the "where in the fuck did that come from" shot appears. This can happen with TENEX or with Lapua Club. This is reality. But what the tuner can and will do is to best utilize that low extreme spread and believe it or not, that will win you more matches. Especially at the longer range of 100 yards.
My advice and i have proved it a few times now, find the ammo with the low extreme spread and if you can't find it, get the ignition system checked out. If it won't do better than 20 fps ES with anything at all, sell the gun. Once you get the magical 20 fps with the new gun, it will must likely shoot well already, but with the right tuner, it will just plonk them down into tiny little holes all the time.
There are two things i know for certain and will never be convinced of otherwise. Tuners work on rimfires and stretcher tubes work on centerfires. There are many good rifles out there, but the addition of one of these two devices will make them great. But only if the ammo is up to it.
And before we all get all worked up and post that your Annie will shoot sub 0.250" groups no problems, Merrill Martin's groups were 50 shots. Yes that's right, a 50 shot group out of his BR rimfire shot at 50 yards that were all inside or on the 0.250" mark. That was his cut-off for what he considered a competitive BR50 rimfire ammo type or batch. And the ammo he found that would deliver it better than most, was Federal 900A, 900B as well as some batches of UMA or UMB. Will the new Lapua or Eley do this? I doubt it. BR50 was an industry and it has long expired as has the development that went with it. Having said that, it brought about the 2007 and 2013 Anshutz rifles which are the rifles of choice these days and while some of them have barrels of questionable ability and the bedding arrangement was stolen off a Leggo block, the ignition is good.
Tony Z.
There is no doubt that in this country right now there is a couple of factory standard Brnos that will and do run rings around many more expensive rifles. We have one in the Townsville club right now. Simply, it is a freak. But this is rare. There is also one Swindlehurst in this country that should never be used for anything more than plinking at tin cans. And no, it is not that one Trevor has for sale, even though the resemblance is striking.
Some years ago i looked at trying to work out a way of making rimfire rifles respond like a centerfire does like when you use the best components, you get the best results more often than not. What i discovered is that rimfires are not predictable because you cannot tune the ammunition to an individual barrel. The barrel must be tuned to the ammo.
At about this time i was doing a lot of work with stretcher tubes and muzzle breaks. The tubes worked so well on the centerfires that i had decided to try them with a rimfire. I also tried tuners on centerfires around this same time and discovered that they were too unpredictable from day to day, weather condition to weather condition etc. Tuners will never work on a centerfire like they do on a rimfire and a tube will never work on a rimfire like they do on a centerfire. There is clearly something quite different with a rimfire and a centrfire in regards to the way they behave in relation to harmonics. One is a very violent and overpowering source of rapid metal expansion and contraction that works its way up and down the barrel several times before the bullet exits the muzzle, whereas the other is a very subtle disturbance or vibration if you wish, at one end of a tube that eventually makes its way through to the muzzle. The number of cycles is irrelevant, but the fact that they do have an effect on impact is.
One thing that a rimfire shares in common with a centerfire is that they both require a bounce point for a consistent return to battery operation. Without this, neither will work very well. Recoil lugs are mostly used with the centerfire and with rimfires something else like the tang of the action etc is often employed. I fitted recoil lugs to all the pillar bedded rimfires i did, and with the glue-ins i either used a recoil lug or a very large squared off tang area or just simply milled a cross slot in the action belly that had glue lock it into place and act like a recoil lug.
What i found 99% of the time when a rimfire shot really well and conversely found 99% of the time why a rimfire shot poorly could be traced back to their ignition. The real hummer had a very repeatable lock up and firing pin delivery and the clunker had neither. Some actions have a clear edge on this ignition delivery and others don't. The Bruno has this edge as does the Rem 541 S and T and what this edge can offer is the ability to get the most consistent velocity spread than a brand of ammo has to offer. In my time not all groups were destroyed by bedding or a faulty crown or any other rifle ailment we can think of. Most were destroyed by poor ignition with either a headspace problem or a dragging or non aligning firing pin or one that protruded too far or not far enough. Weak or binding springs were another source of problems. Whatever the reason, the error showed up as a regular flier with no pattern of location on the target. With some of the actions i built i used multiple firing pins or pins striking at all points of the compass. But to be truthful, the regular 12 o'clock position of a single pin was no better or worse than what my other trials indicated. The dual pin thing showed no gain. Or loss.
What Merrill Martin did back in the hey day of BR50 was to test a lot of things that destroyed groups in order to find a way to improve them. He did all sorts of things that are not all that relevant here at this time, but one very simple thing is. He just used a chronograph to evaluate velocity spread. With a velocity spread of 20 fps, a rimfire bullet with a BC of a house brick at around 0.085 could in no way be expected to group better than 0.250" center to center in the vertical plane at the then competition distance of 50 yards. Add the bullet diameter of say 0.223" and you had a minimum group potential span of 0.473" or just a shade inside the worst edge scoring 100 ring of 0.500". So perfectly centered, this 0.250" group size was the minimum acceptable in order to get the perfect score if you read the wind right. But so few batches of ammo or ammo brands could do better than this 20 fps and this was the limiting factor for many.
The point of this is that no matter what amount of money you spend, and what rifle components you use, the ammo has the final say. You can be lucky and find that one in a thousand Brnos or spend the big bucks to build a work of art that looks the part but shoots like a pile of dog crap because the harmonics are wrong for the really great ammo, or the harmonics are right for the really crap ammo. Either way it will not shoot worth a cracker. The velocity spread may be in the zone or even better, but the barrel is up when it should be down and the group looks like shit.
Now let's add in the tuner. We won't get into another debate on why a tuner does or does not work, let's just say it does. The best way to utilize them is to firstly find that magic 20 fps ammo lot. Once you have found that, it makes little or no difference as to how it groups out of your rifle as the tuner can and will pull in the fliers from the poor barrel harmonics. A rifle with a tuner can never pull in a flier that is 20 fps outside the average and this is where the "where in the fuck did that come from" shot appears. This can happen with TENEX or with Lapua Club. This is reality. But what the tuner can and will do is to best utilize that low extreme spread and believe it or not, that will win you more matches. Especially at the longer range of 100 yards.
My advice and i have proved it a few times now, find the ammo with the low extreme spread and if you can't find it, get the ignition system checked out. If it won't do better than 20 fps ES with anything at all, sell the gun. Once you get the magical 20 fps with the new gun, it will must likely shoot well already, but with the right tuner, it will just plonk them down into tiny little holes all the time.
There are two things i know for certain and will never be convinced of otherwise. Tuners work on rimfires and stretcher tubes work on centerfires. There are many good rifles out there, but the addition of one of these two devices will make them great. But only if the ammo is up to it.
And before we all get all worked up and post that your Annie will shoot sub 0.250" groups no problems, Merrill Martin's groups were 50 shots. Yes that's right, a 50 shot group out of his BR rimfire shot at 50 yards that were all inside or on the 0.250" mark. That was his cut-off for what he considered a competitive BR50 rimfire ammo type or batch. And the ammo he found that would deliver it better than most, was Federal 900A, 900B as well as some batches of UMA or UMB. Will the new Lapua or Eley do this? I doubt it. BR50 was an industry and it has long expired as has the development that went with it. Having said that, it brought about the 2007 and 2013 Anshutz rifles which are the rifles of choice these days and while some of them have barrels of questionable ability and the bedding arrangement was stolen off a Leggo block, the ignition is good.
Tony Z.
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chris.tyne
- .270 Winchester
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:56 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 6BR
- Location: Usually underneath
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Tony thanks for the info,very interesting.........................................................problem is most of us have at least a basic understanding of the ammo,tuner,rifle scenario............................and some have none and they wont have a bar of the tuner working and the ammo....................................................there can only be one 
.
Regards Chris.
.Regards Chris.
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Curtley78
- Political Advisor/Activist
- Posts: 1170
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- Favourite Cartridge: 7mm08 AI
- Location: Helensburgh 'Dixie'
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Mate,chris.tyne wrote:Tony thanks for the info,very interesting.........................................................problem is most of us have at least a basic understanding of the ammo,tuner,rifle scenario............................and some have none and they wont have a bar of the tuner working and the ammo....................................................there can only be one
I am not one of those that shoot with flags nor inform the newbies that they need be able to shoot with rubbish before they progress to the higher grade ammunition, we all know why such people 'provide' newbies with such information.
To conclude. I don't recall too many of you self proclaimed rim fire 'champions' invite Bec to your Clubs. Pathetic. Rest my case.
Regards
Sean
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SnipeWench
- .17 HMR
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:46 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: .50cal
- Location: Sydney
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Hey Guys,
Please keep your arguments civil, and on-topic. Arguing about something can be constructive up to a point where it all starts to get ugly, not just for yourselves, but also to a newbie like me. Sometimes, I'm wondering to myself "what sort of a community have I joined here?".
So far, it's been good - everyone I've met have been friendly, open, and (quite honest) with their advice. I can see how people get upset about opposing views - I've just spent $$$$ buying XXXX rifles and such, and some of you are saying that I should have spent it all on YYYY.
I was told by Sean and the rest of you on here that I should do some load development with my Sako when I get it. Yes, I've done that, I've tried about 8 different brands and variations, and arrived at RWS R50 for the moment. I'm now thinking that I'll book some time on Friday at the SISC to get it professionally tested in the test range to see how close I was, or whether there's a better load I could use.
Until then, I did score a 197 with the Sako first time out at Sutherland on the weekend, and dropped 13 points shooting 60 rounds at the electronic targets on Friday evening - the group was tight, with the MPI inside the 10 ring, just off the X ring.
I now know that I need to work more on trigger control, and picking my shots in the windy conditions. Those will come with experience, and learning the rifle more.
I have been invited up to Newcastle to shoot, invited to shoot at Greystanes a few times too. I'm always open for further invites too!
Cheers,
- bec
Please keep your arguments civil, and on-topic. Arguing about something can be constructive up to a point where it all starts to get ugly, not just for yourselves, but also to a newbie like me. Sometimes, I'm wondering to myself "what sort of a community have I joined here?".
So far, it's been good - everyone I've met have been friendly, open, and (quite honest) with their advice. I can see how people get upset about opposing views - I've just spent $$$$ buying XXXX rifles and such, and some of you are saying that I should have spent it all on YYYY.
I was told by Sean and the rest of you on here that I should do some load development with my Sako when I get it. Yes, I've done that, I've tried about 8 different brands and variations, and arrived at RWS R50 for the moment. I'm now thinking that I'll book some time on Friday at the SISC to get it professionally tested in the test range to see how close I was, or whether there's a better load I could use.
Until then, I did score a 197 with the Sako first time out at Sutherland on the weekend, and dropped 13 points shooting 60 rounds at the electronic targets on Friday evening - the group was tight, with the MPI inside the 10 ring, just off the X ring.
I now know that I need to work more on trigger control, and picking my shots in the windy conditions. Those will come with experience, and learning the rifle more.
I have been invited up to Newcastle to shoot, invited to shoot at Greystanes a few times too. I'm always open for further invites too!
Cheers,
- bec
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Hey Bec,
Well done on the 197.
My best of 3 targets the weekend before last was 197.14 with the Sako.
I haven't tried the expensive ammo yet (can't justify/afford the price tag at this point) so don't want to tempt myself.
I am using SK rifle match which will do me for the moment and seems to perform OK for club matches (managed my first 200 with it a few months back, am yet to repeat it)
With all the practice you're getting I'm expecting to see you clean a few of these blokes up and the prize shoots next year.
I'm lucky to get to the range twice a month at the moment.
Cheers
Bagman
Well done on the 197.
My best of 3 targets the weekend before last was 197.14 with the Sako.
I haven't tried the expensive ammo yet (can't justify/afford the price tag at this point) so don't want to tempt myself.
I am using SK rifle match which will do me for the moment and seems to perform OK for club matches (managed my first 200 with it a few months back, am yet to repeat it)
With all the practice you're getting I'm expecting to see you clean a few of these blokes up and the prize shoots next year.
I'm lucky to get to the range twice a month at the moment.
Cheers
Bagman
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chris.tyne
- .270 Winchester
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:56 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 6BR
- Location: Usually underneath
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Sean why is it that you dont shoot over flags is it club rules or a self imposed handicap,I have the opinion that if your not shooting over flags and there is no reason not to you are just wasting ammo.
Sean where have I suggested using rubbish ammo,its only rubbish if it dont shoot in your particular rifle...........and I have always advocated using the good stuff when you have offered the little gems of info to people such and measuring and weighing ammo,tuners dont work etc.
Sean how would you know what anyone has offered Rebecca in the way of info and invitations to shoot at comps,pretty sure your not Bec's personal spokesperson.
Till you display some knowledge of what you speak I wouldn't be advising to many people about shooting related sports.
PS. Rebecca I apolagize for replying to Seans post as I imagine that you would prefere I didnt but seeing that it appeared to be directed at me I felt a reply was warranted.
Regards Chris
I am not one of those that shoot with flags nor inform the newbies that they need be able to shoot with rubbish before they progress to the higher grade ammunition, we all know why such people 'provide' newbies with such information.
To conclude. I don't recall too many of you self proclaimed rim fire 'champions' invite Bec to your Clubs. Pathetic. Rest my case.
Regards
Sean
Sean where have I suggested using rubbish ammo,its only rubbish if it dont shoot in your particular rifle...........and I have always advocated using the good stuff when you have offered the little gems of info to people such and measuring and weighing ammo,tuners dont work etc.
Sean how would you know what anyone has offered Rebecca in the way of info and invitations to shoot at comps,pretty sure your not Bec's personal spokesperson.
Till you display some knowledge of what you speak I wouldn't be advising to many people about shooting related sports.
PS. Rebecca I apolagize for replying to Seans post as I imagine that you would prefere I didnt but seeing that it appeared to be directed at me I felt a reply was warranted.
Regards Chris
I am not one of those that shoot with flags nor inform the newbies that they need be able to shoot with rubbish before they progress to the higher grade ammunition, we all know why such people 'provide' newbies with such information.
To conclude. I don't recall too many of you self proclaimed rim fire 'champions' invite Bec to your Clubs. Pathetic. Rest my case.
Regards
Sean
-
Curtley78
- Political Advisor/Activist
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Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
.chris.tyne wrote:Sean why is it that you dont shoot over flags is it club rules or a self imposed handicap,I have the opinion that if your not shooting over flags and there is no reason not to you are just wasting ammo......
Now come on Chris, that is the 'difference' between the two associations' and those who shoot with flags to those who shoot with-out. The difference is found with the quality of the ammunition.
Regards
Sean
-
Rinso
- .338 Lapua Magnum
- Posts: 2055
- Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:09 pm
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- Location: Hervey Bay Qld
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Now Chris,
extract from Seans post on 6/11/2009 2.55pm
He then proceeds to say that you can learn to shoot the yardage without flags although he has already stated that he only looks at the flags when its gusting ... are you confused yet Chris????
Sean later tells all and sundry the "he is one of those that shoot without flags" and that the difference between the two associations is those that shoot with flags and those that dont. He fails to menton what the other association is ????
Heres a fact for ya Sean ... YOU DO USE FLAGS IN SMALLBORE .... SIMPLE ENOUGH FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND IS IT
Another fact would be that anyone electing not to look at flags will not get consistant scores .... I dont care what crap you say mate it just dont happen
Another bit of info would be to have a look at the RULES of the discipline you shoot and know your FACTS before you start telling everyone what they dont know.
Some posts in this thread show outstanding levels of knowledge about rimfire shooting and contain some excellent information .. SEAN You would do well to read them again .. you mught end up a little wiser
ALSO SEAN TRY TO REEMEMBER WHAT YOU HAVE ALREDAY SAID Its less embrassing.
DONT bother replying I am well over anything in this thread and wont be back to it.
You cant go making statements like this mate unless you have the ability to remember what was said earlier in the thread ieSean why is it that you dont shoot over flags is it club rules or a self imposed handicap
extract from Seans post on 6/11/2009 2.55pm
Extract from Seans post 6/11/09 8/45pmYes, we shoot for score but in saying so it is no easy task. The only wind flags we have are set by the association and from memory are at the 15 & 40 meter mark (I may be wrong in regard to distance, I very rarely look at them and only ever do when it's gusting).
And then we have the latest gem ... extract of post by Sean 16/11/09 3.16pmChris, Come and shoot with the Small Bore Association, learn to shoot the yardage with-out the use of flags.
Which was shortly followed by this pearl ... xtract from seans post 16/11/09 4.45pmMate,
I am not one of those that shoot with flags
Now unless I am mistaken ole Sean has stated that at SmallBore you can only use the association supplied flags at set yardages as determined by the association.Now come on Chris, that is the 'difference' between the two associations' and those who shoot with flags to those who shoot with-out. The difference is found with the quality of the ammunition.
He then proceeds to say that you can learn to shoot the yardage without flags although he has already stated that he only looks at the flags when its gusting ... are you confused yet Chris????
Sean later tells all and sundry the "he is one of those that shoot without flags" and that the difference between the two associations is those that shoot with flags and those that dont. He fails to menton what the other association is ????
Heres a fact for ya Sean ... YOU DO USE FLAGS IN SMALLBORE .... SIMPLE ENOUGH FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND IS IT
Another fact would be that anyone electing not to look at flags will not get consistant scores .... I dont care what crap you say mate it just dont happen
Another bit of info would be to have a look at the RULES of the discipline you shoot and know your FACTS before you start telling everyone what they dont know.
Some posts in this thread show outstanding levels of knowledge about rimfire shooting and contain some excellent information .. SEAN You would do well to read them again .. you mught end up a little wiser
ALSO SEAN TRY TO REEMEMBER WHAT YOU HAVE ALREDAY SAID Its less embrassing.
DONT bother replying I am well over anything in this thread and wont be back to it.
-
Curtley78
- Political Advisor/Activist
- Posts: 1170
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- Location: Helensburgh 'Dixie'
Re: Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?
Dave,
I know exactly what I've said.
If you consider 'two' flags as being 'equal' to your BR Flags then Ill stand on my hands and walk to Melbourne.
The reality is that the Small Bore Association don't really utilise flags because there are only two that can be utilised and they certainly don't give you direction.
On most nights we don't even place them out (which brings to question the capabilities of those that line them up in 5 meter intervals).
Perhaps your right Ol Rinso 'Ol Chum' in that we do have wind flags in Small Bore, however, the majority of shooters don't use them, including me-unless it's gusting.
Regards
Sean
I know exactly what I've said.
If you consider 'two' flags as being 'equal' to your BR Flags then Ill stand on my hands and walk to Melbourne.
The reality is that the Small Bore Association don't really utilise flags because there are only two that can be utilised and they certainly don't give you direction.
On most nights we don't even place them out (which brings to question the capabilities of those that line them up in 5 meter intervals).
Perhaps your right Ol Rinso 'Ol Chum' in that we do have wind flags in Small Bore, however, the majority of shooters don't use them, including me-unless it's gusting.
Regards
Sean