best AG & scope combo for pigeon disposal?

[feralbuster]

Since I haven't owned an AG for 15 years (a diana 34), and as there is plenty knowledge on this forum, I would like opinions please on the best air rifle, scope & pellet combo for disposing of pigeons (and the odd rabbit) around buildings etc in built up areas.
Requirements:
Range 20-40m thereabouts
Accuracy obviously!
Pellets with minimal pass through (due to building damage)
Quiet
Shooting will be done under LED light at night most of the time
Repeater (fast follow-up shots)
Budget $2-2500 (scope, gun & acc)

On the PCP type AG's, is it necessary to use an airgun specific scope, or will a standard rifle scope (with parallax adjustment) do? (I assume there isn't the recoil issues as per the spring types)

Pretty impressed with long range accuracy & shooting on the FX monsoon thread, like Hawkeye, I would have though you were telling tall ones if the targets & photos hadn't been included to back it up. Mind you, if I have stuff i want to shoot at 100 yards, I'm going to get the 204 out! (wouldn't trust my ability with an AG to shoot game at that range)

[ogre6br]

Didn't you ask a similar Q a short while ago??

This unit here that KJD has for sale is a great package, excellent price and is a 2 shot RWS Rapier.
http://ausvarmint.kjd84.com/forum/viewt ... f=5&t=7999

If you want more shots in the magazine (8) go for the Rapiers big brother
The RWS Excalibur
They look almost the same and handle the same as what KJDs pics show except the Excalibur has space for the bigger rotary magazine in the breech.

Lewis has one for sale in his latest list
http://ausvarmint.kjd84.com/forum/viewt ... =18&t=8344
In this list are 3 of the AGs I would suggest you get for "Rat popping" if you don’t grab KJDs.

RWS/FX Excalibur .22 8 shot
Theoben SLR98 .22 7 shot
Beeman/Theoben Super 12 .20

I shot "rats with wings" for ages/years (several) at times to a semi-pro level until I got sick with this bloody Cancer.
I used an RWS Excalibur initially at close to max power as most of the work was outside on large factory sites or orchards (farms) or in very large machinery sheds.
As I got more known I started to get more calls from smaller places to get rid of “Rats” and other pests from warehouses and from around cooling towers or large commercial heat exchangers in or on roofs.

I was a bit concerned about through shots as some of the shoots were as close as 15-20 feet not yards. I evaluated my main shoots at the time and found that I was getting more smaller places but much smaller bird/animal count shoots than when I first started out.
I'd be called in for 3 “Rats” in a truck garage and those sorts of things in amongst big jobs with scores of “Rats” as well as rabbits and cats all on the same large site.
I spoke to Lewis and he suggested that I get a quality gas ram set to about 17-20 FPE for close work
OR
We turn the power down a bit to stop me making holes in roof/wall tin after close range pass throughs.
I was concerned about not having enough power for the longer than 30 yard shots. Lewis helped me with the maths as I didn’t have the Chairgun2 pc program at the time. We trialed the initial drop in FPE to the mid 20’s and I was amazed at the large increase in shot count with no drop in lethality at all.
So
Lewis turned down the Excalibur to 20 FPE ( about same power as SLR98) and I was much more comfortable doing the close in work (even down to 10 feet) but I was not restricted out to ranges up to and exceeding 40 yards on all birds and small furry ferals and vermin.

The Theoben SLR98 .22 7 shot will do the same function as my turned down Excalibur did without the need to tired to a scuba tanks, filler etc—It’s a gas ram powered lever operated multishot rifle. I have been chasing one for years and now that they are more available I am without $$ to buy one.

Beeman/Theoben Super 12 .20 is an older model of the Theoben Rapid- 12 shots and the rifle of choice for a friend of mine who is a certified vermin controller in the Mallee region of Vic. It works a treat and has given him zero issues and he has had weeks where he shoots upwards of 350 birds in and around the fruit packing sheds up his way.
He does fox and rabbit control work for Govts/Councils etc up that way and uses the Rapid instead of a .22 LR more times than not.

The scope question- no you don’t need a dedicated air gun scope because of the Springer type recoil issues- but it’s much better to have one for the much closer focusing and parallax issues that centre fire scopes don’t cater for that can become an issue with the closer ranges encountered by air gun users
My suggestion- buy a G&R scope as they are like the Rolls Royce of air gun scopes- if they are too $$$- look at the Hawkes that Potter sell I like the one that is on TrevorT's springer when I got to shoot it. Very clear optics and precise click movements.

You mentioned the FX Monsoon semi auto- To me the technology is too new to have all the bugs worked out of it yet- and by its nature it will be a lot more maintenance intensive to keep it running at its best. I know that 10 meter target semi autos are temperamental beasts and require TLC to keep them working properly.
Do you want that sort of grief with a working rifle- do you want to have to dedicate the maintenance time to it, which could be used shooting instead.
The other major, major, major draw back is the shop you have to deal with to get an FX- its more fun smashing your own fingers with a hammer than dealing with that shop.

Especially when you have Lewis’s 100% no worries guarantee as your other option

Hope this helps you make a decision

P

[ogre6br]

Just spoke to my mate in the Mallee

I asked him how he overcomes the through and through problem at close range
His .20 cal is doing 30 FPE with 13.73 grain JSB Exacts (980+ feet a second muzzle velocity)

Some times he withdraws and lengthens the range- but 99% of the time in short range situations

He changes pellets-
JSB Exacts for most things but close range stuff he changes to the Beeman Crow Magnum hollow point pellet which is similar weight and has similar trajectory but the massive hollow point opens up and flattens out the pellet at the high muzzle velocity.
The CM's stiil exit the pigeons sometimes, approx less than 30% of the time (not rabbits, foxes or cats heads though) but at massively slower speed and dont have any grunt to go through roof's etc

P

[kjd]

Just spoke to my mate in the Mallee

I asked him how he overcomes the through and through problem at close range
His .20 cal is doing 30 FPE with 13.73 grain JSB Exacts (980+ feet a second muzzle velocity)

Some times he withdraws and lengthens the range- but 99% of the time in short range situations

He changes pellets-
JSB Exacts for most things but close range stuff he changes to the Beeman Crow Magnum hollow point pellet which is similar weight and has similar trajectory but the massive hollow point opens up and flattens out the pellet at the high muzzle velocity.
The CM's stiil exit the pigeons sometimes, approx less than 30% of the time (not rabbits, foxes or cats heads though) but at massively slower speed and dont have any grunt to go through roof's etc

P

What about wadcutters?

Hey has anyone heard from Paul Janzo lately?

[ogre6br]

Hey has anyone heard from Paul Janzo lately?

Have sms'd or called about once every 2 months for the last 12- never got a response

P

[curan]

Well done Ogre.....

That was as detailed an account of what is required as any I've seen. Lots of experience, and lots of thought, and an (appreciated) effort to post it all.

Almost a handbook on flying vermin control.

thanks, curan.

[feralbuster]

Thanks Ogre,
Yes, I did ask a question about Airarms, but the responses made me realise i didn't ask the RIGHT question to which you've just given me an answer. I'll follow up the brands you mention.

No, I wasn't particularly interested in an FX, I was just mentioning the thread as it turned into a discussion over long range hunting/accuracy with AG's. I know what you mean about the GS (that sells FX) in question, I almost made the mistake of trying to buy an S&B scope from them!

[makrand]

I've never shot an SLR98 but I would add that PCP's are MUCH easier to shoot than springers. Virtually no recoil.

If you are not in a rush Lewis is also getting in the Air Arms air rifles which have a top notch reputation and have the ability to turn the power up and down. (Did Ogre say that?)

If it were me I would go for one of them.

I have an FX Cyclone which is great but I had to get it from the shop that Ogre doesn't like. I didn't have any problems. But they are German

[deecaig]

I have been using a air force talon ss which cost me $550 us brought it at mac1 and predator pellets.