FX-Monsoon semi auto

[kjd]

Drawing a VERY long bow there Cj7hawk,

Firstly MOST PCP's (Chris prefaced this MOST business and I made direct comparisons that encompass most PCP airguns) don't shoot a 28gn pellet at 1400fps (Which also has the same transonic issues and they are irrelevant in this discussion). Even so you look at velocitors you are only 4 inches low at 100yds.

Most PCP's would shoot a 16gn 22 cal pellet at 800-1000fps.

So you aren't playing fair and are generalising yourself. You can provide me few examples of where an airgun can shoot flatter than a 22lr and the one you provide I give you a 22lr round that shoots flatter than your example so I am right for 99% of all comparisons.
I'm sure the big bore airguns and some other uber-airguns are flatter but lets face it, we are talking 22 cal PCP's and most of them don't exceed 1100fps with a 16gn pellet.

[Yrrah]

For David ( cj7Hawk) Perth.

David here are a couple of the best the Eun Jins have done for me:



This one at a lesser MV:



Indexing them into the chamber according to their orientation in the die may be helpful too as it goes some way to ensuring that their centres of gravity may leave the muzzle travelling in the same direction. There is a little lump of lead inside the skirt on each one. You may notice I have marked the pellets to indicate this fingerprint.



Some of this may be helpful .... Kind regards, Harry in Wollongong.

[cj7hawk]

Hi Harry

That is some awesome shooting - It goes way beyond the quality of pellets to do that... I am very impressed.

The Eun Jinn's are the most accurate pellets I have - but I still get the odd flyer and I find quite a few bad pellets. I'll have to try your reamer idea as well.

Hermann's Guns sell Eun Jinn by the tin at a reasonable price and will mail them. I can't get them over here, so I order a few at a time.

I would love to try a few of those other pellets if you're planning on selling them. I'm always wanting to try different. I wouldn't mind trying the Raptor .22 to see if they
work too at the other end of the scale... Being supersonic, perhaps they will hold their speed long enough to make 100m and maintain their accuracy? Do you know if anyone sells them?

BTW, please try the new Chairgun - I just rechecked it and it confirmed that the new upper limit is 3000 fps... So it now supports supersonic air rifles as well.

KJD,

I probably shouldn't have repeated your example back to you - That was rude of me. My apologies.

And you're right... I was drawing the longest of bows...

I just took exception to the statement that no .22 air rifle could beat a .22lr trajectory so I provided an example of one that would... I guess I feel a little slighted by all of those times when I've been dealing with gun shops and they tell me an air rifle is a toy or that it's not even suitable for rabbits... But I like air rifles and I wanted something that would be good for rabbits out to 100m day or night and without any lamps... My AR6 does that quite well and has a good reputation, but it sprays lighter pellets around like a shotgun.

As for big bore? Your .22lr would definately be flatter It would still be going faster at 100m than all of the ones I've heard of, including the 600 ft/lb models.

And you're right about the original statement. Most PCPs can't do that... I'd guess your 99% would probably be 99.9% even, if you take combinations into account.

Most air rifles, as you stated, can't come close. Even if you do get close to velocity, you either need to match BC (ie, big weight increase in this case) or have a LOT more velocity to give a flatter path, because you're going to bleed velocity very quickly with a light pellet... Especially at those speeds.

Regards
David.

[kjd]

KJD,

I probably shouldn't have repeated your example back to you - That was rude of me. My apologies.

And you're right... I was drawing the longest of bows...

I just took exception to the statement that no .22 air rifle could beat a .22lr trajectory so I provided an example of one that would... I guess I feel a little slighted by all of those times when I've been dealing with gun shops and they tell me an air rifle is a toy or that it's not even suitable for rabbits... But I like air rifles and I wanted something that would be good for rabbits out to 100m day or night and without any lamps... My AR6 does that quite well and has a good reputation, but it sprays lighter pellets around like a shotgun.

As for big bore? Your .22lr would definately be flatter It would still be going faster at 100m than all of the ones I've heard of, including the 600 ft/lb models.

And you're right about the original statement. Most PCPs can't do that... I'd guess your 99% would probably be 99.9% even, if you take combinations into account.

Most air rifles, as you stated, can't come close. Even if you do get close to velocity, you either need to match BC (ie, big weight increase in this case) or have a LOT more velocity to give a flatter path, because you're going to bleed velocity very quickly with a light pellet... Especially at those speeds.

Regards
David.

Mate firstly let me say that I know airguns aren't a toy and have been into AG's for a long time. I know they are brilliant pieces of kit and can really exceed expectations that most people have of them. I love my AG's and like to think I know a bit about them.

My main problem is that people don't analyse things all that much and take assumptions and things they have heard as gospel.

The way I see bullet drop is that the projectile with the least time of flight to its target is going to shoot flatter than any other. It won't buck wind as well as some others but will definitely shoot flatter. The reason that is, is because flight time really incorporates velocity and the shedding velocity but the shorter time between leaving the barrel and hitting the target means the less gravity has had a chance to impact on the bullets trajectory.
That being said a projectile with the same velocity but with a better BC will be better as it will not shed velocity as fast as the lower bc pill therefore it will reach its target sooner and therefore gravity has had less time to alter its trajectory so it will have a flatter trajectory seeing that gravity is a constant force (ie: Never changes on earth.)
So given the above and knowing that the majority of pcp's are in the 800-1100fps mark with around a 16gn pellet and also knowing that air rifle pellets have a woeful BC even compared to a 22lr and knowing that the 22lr in general has higher velocities and much higher BC's I called BS. I know I am not wrong in the vast majority of scenarios pertaining to this. I was never saying that the 22lr will be more accurate at that distance or anything of the sort I just had a problem with the comment about "Most pcp's are more accurate and are flatter than a standard 22lr" Perhaps I should have qualified my response better by stating that I was just talking bullet drop?

When it comes to bullet drop time of flight is the key. Wind Drift well thats just a wee bit more complicated .

[ogre6br]

Sam - dont worry about the arguments these guys are having over who's is bigger

Best you just ring Lewis and find out what .22 cal PCP's with his sale kits included he has got in stock

come back here and tell us and let us argue over the merits of the different brands on your behalf

or just buy that one I pm'd you about, have Lewis fit it with a G&R dot reticle scope, and shoot every pest bird and other small pest that annoys you within about 50-60 yards
you could become very popular with orchardists up your way helping them control birds

P

[RossBrown]

Hi guys,

I highly doubt your mate is shooting crows out to 100 yards. Sorry Ray, im not trying to sound like a prick but i think your mate is telling you porky pies... i just find that very hard to believe. Its difficult enough to hit a crow at 100yds with a .22LR let alone a hi powered slug gun... have you seen this with your own eyes? Im not out to make you a liar, i just want facts, not stories like fishermen tell you "it was THIS big..." If anyone can verify this i would happily eat my words and shut the fuck up but i just can't believe an air rifle is capable of accurate 100 yards shots, 50 yds at a stretch i could believe but 'air rifle sniping' crows???
Like i said im not being a prick so dont take offence...
Your from Paralowie are you Ray? I grew up around that area: Parafield Gardens.

Are the FXs difficult to get hold of here in SA does anyone know?

Yeah i'd definately invest in a bottle and fittings if i were going to buy one of those...

So what size groups were you shooting with the FX Chris? And at what distance?

Thanks for the reply guys.

Aye Hawkeye77. I know RayG's mate "personally" if you know what I mean. I have owned an FX Revolution for 5 months, not only has RayG's mate shot a Black Bandit at 118m but has shot 2 at that range, from the same blind. Ray's mate does not tell "porkies" so I suggest do (particularly the last 4 words of your post), and I quote your post "if anyone can verify this i would happily eat my words and shut the fuck up"

[stillair1]

Hi Harry log into chairgun and it will direct you to download the latest version Chairgun pro from hawke optics. This allows inputs to 2000fps.
For the record I've taken a crow @76yds with just a 24ftlb .177 and had several rabbits in the 90 to 94 yd range all lasered rf with a 33ftlb .22. Not had the 100yder yet, but the rifle is a 1moa capable and it's only a matter of time and a still day. Btw mines zeroed at 55yds drops 13.5"@100yds running 965fps with 16gn.

neil

[RayG]

Hi guys,

I highly doubt your mate is shooting crows out to 100 yards. Sorry Ray, im not trying to sound like a prick but i think your mate is telling you porky pies... i just find that very hard to believe. Its difficult enough to hit a crow at 100yds with a .22LR let alone a hi powered slug gun... have you seen this with your own eyes? Im not out to make you a liar, i just want facts, not stories like fishermen tell you "it was THIS big..." If anyone can verify this i would happily eat my words and shut the fuck up but i just can't believe an air rifle is capable of accurate 100 yards shots, 50 yds at a stretch i could believe but 'air rifle sniping' crows???
Like i said im not being a prick so dont take offence...
Your from Paralowie are you Ray? I grew up around that area: Parafield Gardens.

Are the FXs difficult to get hold of here in SA does anyone know?

Yeah i'd definately invest in a bottle and fittings if i were going to buy one of those...

So what size groups were you shooting with the FX Chris? And at what distance?

Thanks for the reply guys.

Well Hawk, Now you have jumped with both feet into the wonderful world of Top High Power Air Rifles Welcome!. You have found that we are a very passionate lot in our chosen sport,and now you know why(NO Fish Stories ). All I can say to you is BUY ONE -TRY ONE! and if you don't get bitten by the Airgun Bug you will never know what you are missing!
Cheers Ray.

[cj7hawk]

Definately...

The only thing more enjoyable than using a PCP air rifle is to pump it up by hand... There's something deeply satisfying about putting several hundred three-stage pumps into your resivwire^h^h^h^h^h^h resovire ^h^h^h^h^h^h air cylinder...

Then of course, the only thing left to do is to buy a decent night vision scope and you're set to go!

David

[ogre6br]

a hand pump- sorry not this big fat duck

scuba all the way

would buy a compressor of Lewis if I had the $$$ to save trips to the dive shop

then my pellet bill would tripple as i could shoot as often as I liked

I'd build a certified range down stairs and the Mrs would never see me

P

[Hawkeye77]

HAHAHAHAHA....
Touchy bunch of shooters arent we? Obviously your all very passionate about your sport, which is great to see!
...Well thank you all for the enlightenment Ray the rest of you guys, i do honestly appreciate you opening my eyes to the world of high powered ARs.

As for RossBrown, i do apologise and i will eat my words as i said: (munch munch munch ...nom nom)
Like i wrote, im not out to call people liars, i am but an uneducated soul looking for answers... I meant no offence.
Just curious though, i notice you only have 1 post next to your name, so would that not mean that you only joined this forum to defend your 'personal' friend?...
So anyway, tell me Ross, what kind of and how much TLC do these semi autos require? How often do you need to clean them to maintain accuracy, how much does excessive use (no. of pellets) affect accuracy and to what extent, etc? Basically i want to know if they are worth the hassle or should i just stick to the bolt / pull action type single shot AR...

Thanks again fellas,
Hawk

[Yrrah]

HAHAHAHAHA....


As for RossBrown, ............. i notice you only have 1 post next to your name, so would that not mean that you only joined this forum to defend your 'personal' friend?...

Thanks again fellas,
Hawk

Hawkeye, As I know Ross, he was I am sure just giving you the first hand objective information you sought, viz., .." If anyone can verify this i would happily eat my words and shut the fuck up but i just can't believe an air rifle is capable of accurate 100 yards shots, 50 yds at a stretch i could believe but 'air rifle sniping' crows??? ....."
In other words he was providing the first hand information for you to then believe or not as one chooses. It is a plus that you have chested-up and made the appropriate apology.

Some others of us were merely offering you some further support and targets to expose results known to a relatively few dedicated precision air rifle shooters.
However not all the folk who occasionally, or often, go shooting will achieve what you have been advised of here. Hidden behind it all is a rather large body of understanding that cannot be transferred in a few "one-liner" answers.
Knowing the right questions to ask in the appropriate manner will, over time, derive the answers.
You have made a fair start with some good questions for Ross - who does not have to defend Ray, as Ray gave you solid information in good faith. Whether or not a reader chooses to believe such is entirely his own business.

Best wishes for all your shooting, powder and air .........
Kind regards, Harry.