FX-Monsoon semi auto

[native hunter]

OOOOOHHHH- where is the popcorn.!!!

[kjd]

Geez Chris,
Stop being so sensitive. I just disagreed with you. I didn't attack you I didn't want to offend you or piss you off. I just said not a chance. . .

Here's why I said not a chance.

A 16gn JSB Exact with a BC of 0.0320 and a velocity of 900fps zeroed at 50yds is 14.84inches low at 100yards

Or Look at an Eley Club at 40gn with a BC of 0.105 and a velocity of 1085fps is only 7.8 inches low at 100 yards which is almost half the drop compared to an airgun.
Both figures are given with a 50yard zero.

I won't even bother looking up the high velocity stuff for the 22lr.

I don't mean offence or to be cocky when I say this but I am not sort of right I am right. If I were wrong I'd happily admit it but there is 7 inches less drop with the 22lr using std velocity ammo to an airgun doing 900fps with an exact.

It isn't opinion mate its physics.

[Sam Walker]

Wow, I too had no idea about modern AG's !! what's the price range of the S/A PCP types ? Would be sensational cane toad medicine !

[ogre6br]

Sam they can be a bit spendy to buy- but you get what you pay for and the performance is something to be marvelled at.

Lewis is your man to talk to about PCP's

He seems to have a selection of S/H ones that are about the price of a new gas ram single shot- all that multishot PCP goodness for the price of a top shelf gas ram- hard decision to make. Gas rams are a class of their own over traditional springers and well worth their extra $$- PCP are just better again

My first PCP was a 22 RWS Excaliber and it really is a KISS principle PCP with great grunt and balance for a hunting rifle
I miss my Excaliber, right up to the point I pick up my Theoben Rapid and then I really appreciate Lewis for talking me into the Rapid.

The Rapid is like a M series Alpine BMW over a showroom model beemer (PCP)

P

[Sam Walker]

snip>I don't mean offence or to be cocky when I say this but I am not sort of right I am right. If I were wrong I'd happily admit it but there is 7 inches less drop with the 22lr using std velocity ammo to an airgun doing 900fps with an exact.

It isn't opinion mate its physics.

looking at the results on target it seems that a bit of trajectory isn't a problem if you're prepared to make the effort of learning how to manage it ! if the gun doesn't have the accuracy required then it doesn't matter if the trajectory is flatter or not, and if the shooter doesn't know the trajectory + distance then he's not going to get the headshot on the crow @ 100yds. Looks to me like the guys who are doing it, are masters of these aspects of shooting. How about you sceptics, can you get the projectile where you want it, when you are way outside the flattest part of your rifle's range ? oh and there's wind to to consider too

[kjd]

http://ausvarmint.kjd84.com/forum/viewt ... 99&start=0 < CHEAP PCP.

[kjd]

snip>I don't mean offence or to be cocky when I say this but I am not sort of right I am right. If I were wrong I'd happily admit it but there is 7 inches less drop with the 22lr using std velocity ammo to an airgun doing 900fps with an exact.

It isn't opinion mate its physics.

looking at the results on target it seems that a bit of trajectory isn't a problem if you're prepared to make the effort of learning how to manage it ! if the gun doesn't have the accuracy required then it doesn't matter if the trajectory is flatter or not, and if the shooter doesn't know the trajectory + distance then he's not going to get the headshot on the crow @ 100yds. Looks to me like the guys who are doing it, are masters of these aspects of shooting. How about you sceptics, can you get the projectile where you want it, when you are way outside the flattest part of your rifle's range ? oh and there's wind to to consider too

Of course Sam knowing your trajectory is vital but you are taking it out of context.
I was talking about this comment:

Most PCP are more accurate than the average .22 rimfire and shoot flatter to 100.

The comment in bold is WRONG. I am not saying you can't shoot out to 100m I know you can it gets proven here all the time. My problem was the above comment is wrong in regards to bullet drop. A 22lr drops 7 inches less than a PCP Airgun at 100yds.
Now I don't disagree with anything else Chris says just that his above statement is wrong, it isn't almost right it is completely wrong. I don't mean that to offend anyone but its just the facts.

[Sam Walker]

Ok fair enough re which one is flatter, the .22LR has it over the AG's...now what I'd like to know is are these PCP's that accurate out of the box, is it just a matter of finding the best pellet ?
PCP's would be gentle on scopes compared to a springer ? I'd better go and search through some AG posts...beeen a long time since I took an interest in AG's. As a young bloke I used to have a Norica springer, and then a Sharp Innova, both .177

[ogre6br]

Ok fair enough re which one is flatter, the .22LR has it over the AG's...now what I'd like to know is are these PCP's that accurate out of the box, is it just a matter of finding the best pellet ?
PCP's would be gentle on scopes compared to a springer ? I'd better go and search through some AG posts...beeen a long time since I took an interest in AG's. As a young bloke I used to have a Norica springer, and then a Sharp Innova, both .177

happy to say my friend- you have a lot to catch up on
it will be a fun journey for you to learn how good AG's are now

P

[kjd]

Use any scope u want, most just require finding the right pellet no bedding no floating and I really haven't heard of a fussy pcp yet!

[cj7hawk]

snip>I don't mean offence or to be cocky when I say this but I am not sort of right I am right. If I were wrong I'd happily admit it but there is 7 inches less drop with the 22lr using std velocity ammo to an airgun doing 900fps with an exact.

It isn't opinion mate its physics.

looking at the results on target it seems that a bit of trajectory isn't a problem if you're prepared to make the effort of learning how to manage it ! if the gun doesn't have the accuracy required then it doesn't matter if the trajectory is flatter or not, and if the shooter doesn't know the trajectory + distance then he's not going to get the headshot on the crow @ 100yds. Looks to me like the guys who are doing it, are masters of these aspects of shooting. How about you sceptics, can you get the projectile where you want it, when you are way outside the flattest part of your rifle's range ? oh and there's wind to to consider too

Of course Sam knowing your trajectory is vital but you are taking it out of context.
I was talking about this comment:

Most PCP are more accurate than the average .22 rimfire and shoot flatter to 100.

The comment in bold is WRONG. I am not saying you can't shoot out to 100m I know you can it gets proven here all the time. My problem was the above comment is wrong in regards to bullet drop. A 22lr drops 7 inches less than a PCP Airgun at 100yds.
Now I don't disagree with anything else Chris says just that his above statement is wrong, it isn't almost right it is completely wrong. I don't mean that to offend anyone but its just the facts.

KJD, Your statement is wrong because it's a generalisation. Mostly you're right, but I linked to a 1400 fps 28gn PCP air rifle earlier. Given the scoped in at 50m criteria, it only drops around 5 inches at 100m. Based on this and the fact it's a PCP air rifle it is possible to shoot flatter than a .22lr (not including subsonics) Sure, you can quote even higher speed .22s, but if you take the lower end of the .22lr and put it up against the higher end of the PCP air rifles, they can beat it where trajectory is concerned.

Accuracy is another matter - transonic speeds adversely affect the accuracy of ALL bullets, though the boat-tail design is better than the shuttlecock design, no question.

But at 60 to 80 ft/lbs stock you can still get a light .22 pellet to drop less than what you stated. Even allowing for losses in energy due to lower BC. There's only two air rifles I can thinks of that do it ( three if you include tuned models ) but they do exist and one of them is available locally. Increase the distance to 150m and you could be right though.

Anyway, the goal with most high end PCPs is to keep the velocity under 950 m/s but as close as you can get to it. Based on that, you're also correct.

I expect most people here have seen it - a free ballistics program for airguns... Lots of pellets in the database, play with the figures and see what range you should scope in at and what your drop is at various ranges.

http://chairgun.com/

I have my air rifle scoped in from 30m to 70m... Using this program helped me find the optimal range to scope in at.

The pellets in that 1400+ fps demonstration were Eun Jinn 28gn. You can play around with the figures in that program too.

Regards
David.

[Yrrah]

The pellets in that 1400+ fps demonstration were Eun Jinn 28gn. You can play around with the figures in that program too.

Regards
David.

David what is the rifle you refer to that shoots Eun Jins at 1400 fps for 124 fpe? ....... Kind regards, Harry.

Edit: "Chairgun' only allows MV input to 1126 fps and for good reason. However if one wants to theoretically play a little at higher velocities, brad Troyer's ballistic calculator is pretty close to the money and results correlate well with Chairgun. Brad's programme allows for higher velocities to be data input. Ref .. http://www.airguns.net/trajectory.php

Kind regards, Harry.

[Yrrah]

if the shooter doesn't know the trajectory + distance then he's not going to get the headshot on the crow @ 100yds. ........

Sam there is no need to head-shoot the crows at longer ranges with the rifles and pellets that some of us are using. In fact the best placement is through the wishbone at the base of the neck for a front on shot; or centre back, a little higher than lower, if back on. The worst is centre side on as the wing feathers and wing bones act as a canter -levered shock absorber. ....

In respect of ranging and trajectory: we have a dedicated ballistic programme called "Chairgun". It was written by Dave in the UK and the maths tweaked by Steve Woodward in the USA. When quality data is input ( some work there) the results are stunning. The cheaper rangefinders, used in golf these days, and a little time spent learning how they are best used pays dividends in spades.........

Wind doping is a problem in all shooting but that is something to be worked at and can really only be improved by regular dedicated practice. Without doing the hard yards, killing pests and small game at long range is a lottery so we air rifle shooters must exercise discipline and must be aware of the limits. Knowing whether to press the trigger or not and having the self discipline to act accordingly is mandatory to ethical hunting in any aspect of riflery , right? ....... Kind regards, Harry.

[cj7hawk]

The pellets in that 1400+ fps demonstration were Eun Jinn 28gn. You can play around with the figures in that program too.

Regards
David.

David what is the rifle you refer to that shoots Eun Jins at 1400 fps for 124 fpe? ....... Kind regards, Harry.

That is one very tuned AR6... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6EEhV1R-Ks

By a guy named Cronicash on the NZ board. He seems to have a bit of a hobby doing that kind of tuning. One of those shots was nearly 1500 fps!

I have an AR6 also - but mine's only at 60 ft/lb - And I struggle to find heavy pellets to avoid transonic issues. So far, only the Eun Jinn really work well in it, though I am considering setting to to lower power for lighter pellets... Should save some gas too.

The Daystate Ranger 80 ft/lb and the AirForce Condor are the other high-end air rifles I'm aware of. But the AR6 is sold in Australia, so I went with it. ( The newer models also seem to have a reasonable reputation.)

I get pretty good accuracy, but only with the Eun Jinn, which is sad because they are not that well made and I find a lot of duds when I take them out of the tin. I need to work out how to import some better heavy pellets

Regards
David.

p.s. The new (and still free) chairgun goes to 3000 fps... I have no idea how you'd get an air rifle to go up that high...

[Yrrah]

........
.......... I get pretty good accuracy, but only with the Eun Jinn, which is sad because they are not that well made and I find a lot of duds when I take them out of the tin. I need to work out how to import some better heavy pellets

David.

So where are you getting your Eun Jins from David?

I brought in a supply a year ago from the USA and have found them to shoot very acceptably from one of my modified BSA Hornets at 45+ fpe and 850 fps. They will do sub half inch at 50 yards frequently. The two starlings in the pic further up were shot - along with others - at 60 yards. The Eun Jins still do OK out to 100 yards but never quite sub inch. They are devastating on rabbits to that range however. I have modified them by lightening the inside of the skirts with a reamer to a small advantage.

Hopefully soon we will have the 25.4 gr JSB Monsters which may be the # 1 pellet for the more powerful rifles. They just may hang in for your rifle at about 1030 fps for near 60 fpe. The BC may be as high as 0.06 by a friend's report. My sample is still on a wool clipper somewhere between Europe and here; it left JSB on June 17 .......

I added an edit to the above post. Chairgun does not allow MVs above 1125 fps. I referenced another quite good ballistic programme for air rifles which does allow higher MVs ... http://www.airguns.net/trajectory.php

Kind regards, Harry.