Supressors... worth the effort?

[Plowboy]

Hey all with the gun laws the way they are, is it worth going to all the trouble to get a permit for a supressor? I refuse to call them silencers as they do not make the gun silent especially when shooting supersonic ammo. I reckon they are dubbed that in order to make them sound bad and dangerous. Our mates across the ditch can have them as well as the poms where I reckon gun laws are worse.

I am not sure how to go about it but I do know you can get permits to get them($65 in Vic) but I think it's a shooter saftey issue. Having to wear ear muffs makes shooting within a group dangerous IMO as you cannot hear your partners or for that fact others who may be in the area.

Does anybody have one or do they know anybody who has one? And does anybody know what is involved in getting a permit for one.

[Stalker]

Are you a professional shooter mate??

[Plowboy]

Na mate just a farmer.

[jeffk]

I used sound moderators on nearly all my rifles when I lived in the UK. On a .22LR with subsonic ammo, they reduce the noise almost to the point where you mainly hear the action working followed by the bullet hitting home. On HMR and Centrefire, you can't moderate the sonic crack but they do a very good job of lessening muzzle blast - especially if you were to listen from in front of the gun. An added benefit is not needing hearing protection, and the reduction in recoil and muzzle flip in centrefires - with things like a .243 you can watch your bullet strike, for example.

They used to be difficult to get in the UK, but one of the few benefits of Health and Safety legislation going crazy in the last 10 years or so made them harder to refuse if you quoted that as your "good reason", and they are now mandatory for use in some places for noise pollution reasons....

Along with my .22 semi-auto, they are one of the few things I miss here, and I would buy them again in an instant if we were allowed them!

[LoneRider]

up here its an added catagory on ya licence."cat R" restricted.
if you or any qlders can find out how to get em added,dont keep it a secret.

[Plowboy]

JeffK I was hoping your avatar meant were were from the UK! Yeah I did a bit of reading into it and by the sound of it(no pun intended) Victtorians at least need a "prescribed items" permit to get one. I don't know what this involves but knowing the Govt, it would be a headache. It also sounds(again no pun intended) that the comissioner can put what ever restrictions he/she likes onto your permit. I would dare say that you would come under the spotlight of a lot more inspections and any stuff up could have serious implications. I reckon I will have a chat to the firearms officer next time I talk to him and see what he says. As you say though Jeffk not having to wear ear protection is a big plus especially if your out in the bush with a group. I consider it very dangerous shooting out there as you can easily loose you friend position and well you know... Being able to hear much more is a big benefit IMO and that's what they give you. That and the fact that you drastically improve you chances of being able to shoot more than one feral in an area before they figure out where you are.

[Mick]

In most of Europe, you can't shoot without a suppressor on a public range for health reasons.
I hear the deal in the UK is that somebody raised it as an OH&S issue for farmers and pest control, which is how they are now legal.

I don't understand the big deal really. You have to be shooting subs for a suppressor to be almost silent. Most people aren't shooting a centerfire at subsonic velocities, so they are hardly silencing the rifle. It's also not like they are an engineering marvel that can't be made in your shed. It's alluminium pipe with some baffles (aka washers) pressed in at the right spacing. People who want them for dodgy shit will just make them.

Another case of a useful tool being outlawed because of criminals who don't care that a suppressor is illegal anyway. The part where they attach it to an illegally bought MP5 or the like probably gives that away though....

Yes, our firearms laws were devised by retards.

[LoneRider]

mick,when is the last time you heard of a criminal using a silencer ?
if you put a silencer of a large cal rifle [anything over a 22] the size of the tubing increases big time.this myth of using silencers to make a large cal pistol or rifle [any rifle] dead quiet is just that.the noise you hear on telly when the bad guy fires a off a silenced weapon is only a sound affect.its not like that in real life.
in a sniper situation a silencer is used to disguise where the shot came from.not make it unheard.it cant be done.
sure it will lessen the noise,reduce the flash and even aid in reducing recoil [a bit] but...it will put your POI off quite alot.And ,if it isnt dead streight to the bore,it WILL catch the projectile and cause all sorts of problems.

i can see the benifit of using them at the range,but if you take that same rifle into the field and DONT use it,your going to have to spend time and ammo resighting the gun.
im all for being alowed to use them,but wouldnt bother on anything other than a 22.[in the field] but then again,if the need arose,i would like the option without the gov restrictions.

JMHO

LR

[jeffk]

In most of Europe, you can't shoot without a suppressor on a public range for health reasons.
I hear the deal in the UK is that somebody raised it as an OH&S issue for farmers and pest control, which is how they are now legal.

They were always legal. If attached to an air rifle (Unlicensed in the UK, but restricted on power) there are no restrictions whatsoever on them. If attached to a rimfire or centrefire, they are a licensable commodity and must be listed on your FAC (Firearms Certificate) for a specific gun, and to get one, you have to show a "good reason". What changed is the police's attitude to what constitutes a "good reason", as fear of Health and Safety legislation and the HSE (Health and Safety Executive) made them far less likely to refuse an application when prevention of hearing damage was cited on the application.

I don't understand the big deal really. You have to be shooting subs for a suppressor to be almost silent. Most people aren't shooting a centerfire at subsonic velocities, so they are hardly silencing the rifle.

That's true to a point, but you are underestimating their benefits on centrefires. They disguise the origin of the shot, and reduce muzzle blast significantly to the point where you can often get a second shot at a target.

if you put a silencer of a large cal rifle [anything over a 22] the size of the tubing increases big time.
sure it will lessen the noise,reduce the flash and even aid in reducing recoil [a bit] but...it will put your POI off quite alot.And ,if it isnt dead streight to the bore,it WILL catch the projectile and cause all sorts of problems.

It doesn't increase that much, as most centrefire silencers are "over barrel" types and quite long, so the volume of the sound chamber can be quite large without making them massively cumbersome. Google a Reflex T8, PES 12 and Wildcat Whisper and you'll see what I mean. They are quite heavy though, so I wouldn't bother with one on a mountain or stalking rifle - only my rimfire and varmint/vermin guns had them.
Also, having them not straight to the bore is rarely a problem in practise, and certainly not for professionally fitted over-barrel designs.

i can see the benifit of using them at the range,but if you take that same rifle into the field and DONT use it,your going to have to spend time and ammo resighting the gun.
im all for being alowed to use them,but wouldnt bother on anything other than a 22.[in the field] but then again,if the need arose,i would like the option without the gov restrictions.

The POI does change, but it changes consistently, so you only need to know the clicks and you can dial back in OK.
Interestingly, the police in the UK still sometimes have an issue granting them for a pure target gun, as the H&S argument doesn't hold up when ear protection is almost mandatory as yours isn't the only rifle being fired....

[Plowboy]

mick,when is the last time you heard of a criminal using a silencer ?

...Ahem he didn't it was silenced jokes!

but...it will put your POI off quite alot.And ,if it isnt dead streight to the bore,it WILL catch the projectile and cause all sorts of problems.

Well they must be OK if hunters are using them O/S Maybe not backyard jobs but...

I would also like the option. I have the option of getting a C class licence for feral control and a few around here do but extra pain to do it. Although I reckon if it wasn't too bad I would go for a suppressor as they make shooting quieter, safer and more effective.

[LoneRider]

Google a Reflex T8, PES 12 and Wildcat Whisper and you'll see what I mean.

no need mate,ive spent alot of hrs in the library [dunny] reading about design, construction ,principles, usage, military grade, home made and field expediant,aswell as hrs of study on the computer.its one of my pet interests.

[jeffk]

no need mate,ive spent alot of hrs in the library [dunny] reading about design, construction ,principles, usage, military grade, home made and field expediant,aswell as hrs of study on the computer.its one of my pet interests.

That's a lot of effort to go to when you live in a country where you can't use one!

I was gutted when I sold my Reflex and SAK (Not to mention my Walther G22 with it's factory moderator).

[Trev]

I have used a can many times on an M4. A good can will reduce niose signature very very well. In fact, on an M4, you can clearly hear the action cycle over the muzzle blast. Cans can be very very good at suppressing noise, but a really good can is very very expensive and very very big.

I actually have an application in at the moment for approval to import and use a suppressor. Dont know if it will get approved though.

[LoneRider]

I actually have an application in at the moment for approval to import and use a suppressor. Dont know if it will get approved though.

what state is that for ?
let me know how it goes and what you used for genuine reason.
dont leave out anything...you might be onto something here.

[Stalker]

Plowboy, in Vic you must be a pro shooter. To do that, you need to prove and very well that you rely on professional hunting for your primary source of income. This can take 3-4 months to get approved. It also involves changing your license. This is where the whole ball game changes forever. Once you get that you need to be a registered business and get the relevant insurance, about $2,400 for the year. Then you can apply for a silencer permit. For that you need evidence of at least three professional shooting contracts each explaining why the task cannot be completed without a silencer. You need letters of reference etc etc. You also need to have standard operating procedures in place for your business. Police check etc. If you do get the permit, you need to complete a JHA form for every property you shoot on. You must also submit monthly silencer useage reports detailing where, when, how long for etc....for each session. You must also never use the silencer on recreational properties. You can do all this but it can about a year all up. Easier to give them 10litres of your own blood. I asked if I could do that and believe me they nearly took me up on it.



After all that, you need to find someone to make you a can, you cannot import them.

I seriously doubt you would get one to shoot ferals on your own property



So in answer to your question, if you are going to put in the hours and make at least 15k a year from pro shooting work, then yeah, it might be worth the effort.