Thanks K Rudd

[Knackers]

Seems like the thread is highjacked a bit so I'll put my two bob's worth in.
If you listern to all the stats, gambling was up 9% during the hand outs and dropped again when they stopped, wise people saved it or payed it off their morgage, many in good positions bought themselves, hunting equip, car stuff, sporting stuff, hell I'm building a carport and verandah. It is a gift that many many of us don't really need and the country is getting deeper into debt with it for no real gain from the first couple of hands. (working at the tip I saw a huge increase in the amount of wide screen TV cartons that came in 5-8 a day, now back to 2-5 a week and thats no bull shit) We are buying stuff we want cause the cash handouts are surplus to our living needs, what I mean is that if the economy is so fucked then why hasn't everyone spent their money keeping the wolf from the door?
I reckon the money should have been spent on infastucture projects from the start, in every shire in every state and get people into jobs and skills that will carry them after the crisis.
We will be paying for this for a very long time and remember now adays more taxes are as simple as putting up the GST 2-5 more %. Is the next govenment going to be called pricks for trying to clean up the mess?
dont mean any shit fights, thats just my opinion.

[trevort]

very well put Knackers. There is an argument for Government to go into debt to help the economy when the private sector is contracting but I'm with you, spend it on creating jobs, not plasmas. And if they dont slow this first home buyer grant back down we are going to create our own little sub prime problem.

Yeah, got your text.

Your welcome!

[kjd]

Isn't that the point of the stimulus?

To keep people in the jobs they already have? To keep money flowing through retail?

The point of it was to buy hunting equipment, plasma's, sporting stuff and even building materials (thats where mine will be going). See when that sort of luxury spending goes away thats when you see huge numbers of lay offs. It is keeping money flowing. The whole point of it was to keep sectors like Retail afloat which it is.

[Knackers]

Harvey Normal profits rose during the handouts and fell after and he was screaming for Gov to hand out more money. So we have a hand full of harvey salesman kept in a job selling products that are made overseas while others are losing their jobs.
Imagine how far the money would have gone if they built the new hospital in Wagga that has been promised for the last 10 years. There would be hundreds if not thousands of people directly and indirectly employed, many learning new skills along the way, surpporting local suppliers, businesses, etc and then when its finished it would continue to be a place of employment and training and benifit thousands of people, instead everybody in Wagga got a new toy that was most probably made OS and thats the end of it, money spent, gone, nothing more except govenment trying to recoupe the money a few years down the track.

[Knackers]

Should this thread be moved to another section?

[kjd]

Knackers the thing is mate that is the sort of stuff that is also happening:

* Free ceiling insulation for around 2.7 million Australian homes
* Build or upgrade a building in every one of Australia’s 9,540 schools
* Build more than 20,000 new social and defence homes
* $950 one off cash payments to eligible families, single workers, students, drought effected farmers and others
* A temporary business investment tax break for small and general businesses buying eligible assets
* Significantly increase funding for local community infrastructure and local road projects

In regards to the Build 20000 more social homes I think fair enough as long as they are mixed in with regular housing as housing commission estates do not work and they negatively impact society. If the Ghetto towns were never built and they were integrated throughout society rather than being clumped together you would never have the slums nor would you have the dole bludger mentality.

[stinkitup]

Can't see how the stimulus keeps me in a job when people spend it on hunting gear, plasma's and gambling. Mine will go to bills which yes will make life easier but why couldn't it have been on infrastructure, schools and health systems. Only time will tell if it is/was the right thing to do I suppose and I'm not sure things are as bad as made out, well here in Au in anyway.

Keith weren't alot of these new "projects" ear marked well and truly before the stimulus packages got rolled out? And free Insulation is only if you don't already have it and I believe not for "new homes" which have to have it anyway.

I guess time will tell.

[kjd]

Stinky,

I have no idea on what projects were earmarked etc etc. They are still keeping people in jobs though or creating new ones.

The insulation thing will keep a lot of people employed as well as making houses without insulation a lot more energy efficient. Which lowers our reliance on natural gas/ coal which is good for the environment and air quality. That is one of the things that makes a lot of sense to me.

[Knackers]

* Free ceiling insulation for around 2.7 million Australian homes

Why, I had to pay for it, now my taxes are going to give it to anyone that wants it free, and a few insulation makers will get wealthy.

* Build or upgrade a building in every one of Australia’s 9,540 schools

been watch TWO blokes building a three mtrs fence around the school across the road for the last four weeks.

Build more than 20,000 new social and defence homes

I'm not keen about my taxes being spent on social housing

* $950 one off cash payments to eligible families, single workers, students, drought effected farmers and others

Shouldn't off done that IMO

* A temporary business investment tax break for small and general businesses buying eligible assets

that still means you have to spend money and you get a TEMP TAX break? still got to pay off your investment.

* Significantly increase funding for local community infrastructure and local road projects

good stuff.

just my opinion.

[kjd]

My only suggestion to those that don't like the stimulus payment we are all getting is to give it back to the ATO. If you truly don't believe it is good for the country and I assume that 20% of people think its a bad idea then why not give it back and make a dent in our debt?

It is hypocritical to say "I don't think its a good thing to do" then go out and spend the money.

[MISSED]

MY 2 cents worth hang on we don`t have them anymore

[Knackers]

Keith, wifey and I have paid close to $200,000 in taxes and stamp duties in the last ten years (I was a stockman and wifey in admin) we worked hard and if the gov of the day wants to give me back $950 of that money, believe me I will bloody take it. What pisses me off is that the loser on welfare that did $30,000 damage to our property and neglected rent for 3 months has never worked a day in their lives, got $7000 this christmas for her little darlings, I'm still paying off a $22k loan for the damage they did. On my wages now thats another 4 years paying it off, no government body or organisation could help me stop being screwed over and infact (I'm sure they thought I was a millionaire), couldn't or wouldn't help me out and the laws are such that you just have to go down the gurgurller till you can get the losers out. The "dope slut" as the locals call her got $4000 for her little darlings that have three different fathers, and she's never worked a day in her life either, or hasn't for the ten years I lived in the district. So there's two complete families that received $11,000 between them and cost the tax payer on a daily basis, but contribute fuck all. ( and in all likely hood have produced 11 more welfare leeches )
I maintain the money should have gone to big infastructure projects to employ and skill .

I'll take the money cause I paid the money. It wouldn't have worried me if it wasn't offered at all though.

[native hunter]

Thats sounds about right to me knackers.!!
Regards

[Phoenix84]

We could all start to pay back the deficit??? What is that up to now?

We can look forward to more taxes when it comes time to fill in that black hole, so yea - Thanks a ****ing heap Rudd.

My 2c.

Oh for sure and considering that the Liberal's plan included spending almost as much money what would have you said then?

Not only that but this is to stimulate the economy to keep certain sectors going and its part of a bigger plan.

I take it with your opinion on the bonus that you will be returning yours to the ATO??

Sometimes debt is a necessary evil especially when we haven't seen hard financial times like this since the great depression.

Actually, I didn't mention Labour or Liberals at all - Just the actions of. They all lie to get in government, I have not been alive to see a government fulfill the promises they make. I just see a lot of posts on several forums titled with the likes of "Got it and don't know how to spend it" (not having a go at the origional poster). It seems to be that a lot of people who need it didn't get it.

There is more pro's and cons we could both say, but I think we are just best to not make an issue out of it.

PS. I don't think I will get any - and not because I made more than the income limit. I don't care that I don't get it - I just think there are more wise ways it could be spent.

[Phoenix84]

I hope this won't stir this bee hive again, but anway:

Let’s face it - a lot of... let's say 'multiple beneficiaries' of the scheme... will buy TV’s, electronics or other imported items - After Knackers’ post we all know I mean (and I agree).

What if that money was used to support value adding to our resources?

I mean - I see our natural resources go overseas, be 'value added' (refined, materials used, etc) and imported as TV's, cars, etc, etc, etc.

My OPINION (not a fact) is that it would have a much more positive influence on the economy if the TV's were made in Australia. It would not only create jobs, but the income the workers earned would be spent in Australia rather than in China/India/Thailand or wherever, therefore have a huge follow-on effect. I know it's not quite that simple, but the main thing to do would be increase import tariffs which would make the government money, it would just make TV's cost more temporarily.

I use TV’s as an example because it’s not connected to my industry in any way.

Long story short, the system I hate is:
Aussies do the hard work to get Australian resources out of the ground
It’s loaded onto boats to another country
They process the ore or whatever it may be
The finished product made of Aussie resources is shipped back to Australia for a profit

We only get one small part of the income, jobs, etc out of this system and resources are something that will run out eventually.

Trent out.

- I guess I’m up to 4c or 6c now... Who do you pay that to anyway???