1000yd Benchrest in AUS

[Tony Z]

Sayko, most of the posts here have little or nothing to do with your post or position. There are underlying issues about this discipline that need to be sorted. There is no split of the 1K group as such, just a disagreement with rules or the possibility of new rules coming to be that some do not totally agree with. Lets not make a mountain out of this speed bump. The fact is that some like to shoot either one way or the other, some are vehemently opposed to either option, as is their right.


Lets get this into a little perspective. If Canberra saw fit to introduce a new method to try to bolster numbers in its immediate area, and not neccessarily those from interstate, then that is their perogative and right aswell. If Townsville chooses to continue to shoot the blind method, that is also our right. I have at various times talked with all our members and we have all discussed as a group the options. Not one member of our group has opted to try anything but the blind method. Lets not see our choice as opposed to Canberra's choice as a split or indeed a wedge to try and split from each other. Both ranges are completely different in their needs and approaches to IK. We might not agree with each others ways and means, but that does certainly not mean we do not support each other. At the end of the day we are all 1K shooters. As i have stated before, the jury is still out for me in relation to which method is the best option to go with, both on a personal level aswell as a future for the sport. The stats tell me one thing, but that is not living proof that it is the right or wrong thing or what may be the best for everyone involved.


Alan, your comment does not change the way i view you in the slightest. My view of you will always be the same . I see what is going on in 1K as a parallel to some of the issues you have had in FClass. At the end of the day i hope things work out as i am sure you do in your chosen discipline.


Tony Z.

[Rinso]

et al,

I think the issue that has not been mentioned and should be noted is that a lenghty and in depth discussion is taking place over the issues raised and peoples concerns and opinions are being heard.

It is most important in a change process that communication is effective and people are allowed to air their opinions without fear of any backlash or negative response.

It is most pleasing to see this discussed in a strong but fair way where no one is becoming offensive or over aggressive it speaks well of the calibre of people involved in the sport.

For mine I dont believe in marked targets but have no objection to others using them in a different class.

cheers
Rinso

[a.JR]

s

[Matt P]

Jeff
Has ther been a push to change rifle weights ??
I don't, and wouldn't expect others to want to change rifle weights to include FO style guns. If I want to make weight for light gun and use a 30" barrel I have to change from a NF to a T36 Weaver or use a 27" barrel, I certinly don't expect the 1000yrd and Fly rules to be modified to suit FO weight limits. If at club level (not counting for SOTY or records) clubs wanted to run a FO class so be it, that would hopefully get people interested enough to modify or build guns to suit and in turn bolster numbers.

Matt P

[a.JR]

]

[Tony Z]

I am totally for a rules proposal that has a 10 kg rifle and a HG class that is ten shots for all and is spotted for all. Ala F Class. But then the other half of the draw should be LG and HG as they are with 5 and 10 shots respectively as per what the blind system of an IBS style blind shoot that has been used to date.. That gets both classes completely seperate and if a LG from the spotted system wants to shoot IBS blind style, then it is quite welcome to as a HG competing agaisnt the likes of Jeff, the two Daves and myself, of course only if that rifle should weigh more than the current 7.7 kg LG limit.

The other question i would like to ask here is, how far is F Class away from having benches optional? There seems to be mutterings of this coming from different parts of the country. If i didn't know any better, one would think that some from FC/MR would like to influence 1K, and others from 1K are trying to influence FC/MR.
Benches and suppressors along with white table cloths and picnic baskets should make for a nice and peaceful Sunday outing.

The other thing of note here is that those that have done well in 1K over the past 5 years or so are for the retention of the blind system, and those that have not done so well are more in favour of the spotted method and its introduction into the fray. Brings me back to my old view that one should look at changing ones way of thinking about the rules rather than opting to change the rules to suit ones way of thinking.

And as a last point, if somewhere along the line someone decides that grading should be considered as an option for 1K, then this little black duck is gunna have a lot of spare time aswell as cash from rifle sales to try and whittle down those last couple of strokes on my handicap.

Tony Z.

[Ackley Improved]

Why cant shit always just be kept simple???

F Class. Rifle to 10kg, shot prone.

1000yd, shot from bench. 17lb for LG, Unlimited for HG. Shot blind. If you want your shots spotted, shoot F Class.

What a load of shit these rule ideas are. It does seem that the rule changes are just to make these competions suit a few shooters criteria. Changing to what they want... The rules should be in cement...

I have a new rule.... It doesnt matter what the F%^# you turn up with, it doesnt matter how the F%$#^ you shoot it, but you just curve the rules to suit what you would like.

What BS!

I guess it will drag the Fly into it as well... FFS

Cheers
AI

[Blackpete]

I'm with you AI,
when i first joined 1000yrd & fly i did it because those were the competitions (AND RULES) i liked above any other shoot and now there are some who want to change the rules to suit them selves! This is the shit that makes me angery, why can't they F&^%$ off and play in their own sand box.
Pete.

[Rinso]

AI,

So emotional for a young man with years of rules debates ahead of him

Mate the fact is that in this country BR predominatly is a short range sport and the ranges that host BR for the most part cant shoot past 500 m many cant go past 200 m.

This essentially means that we (BR shooters) have to use NRA ranges to get the distance. Unforunately that means we have a cross over between 'F' Class (FO particularly).

That means you have 2 completly different disciplines and as such different ideas and attitues.

The main thing is that emotions dont get in the way and people listen and think before making statements that create animosity and prevent constuctive debate.

cheers
Rinso

[Blackpete]

Hi Rinso,
mate i totally agree with you but it still gets my goat up when people want to interfear with the things i do (the legal things that is), i spose it just shows the level of passion i have for my chosen sports.
Pete.

[Ackley Improved]

The money I have invested in this sport Rinso was invested due to me liking the way these rules were and how the competitions were shot.

I had the rifles built accordingly.

Currently a rifle is being built in 308 with a tactical stock to shoot prone off bipods for F Class. If F Class goes to benches, well, that was a waste of money on the stock and action. That will be one expensive bunny basher!

It will turn out that you will be most likely competing against youself in a relay, cause nobody else will be shooting your shoot!

Thank god I am having a PPC built.... but then I have heard about rule changes in the US regarding SR BR. I guess that will make it to us if they do change. Least it is only a weight rule.

Correct me if I am wrong, but F Class was to developed to bring both benchresters and fullbore together in the one shoot. Now, is F Class trying to over run other comps? I have nothing against F Class, and I am looking foward to shooting it!

I think this is a serious topic. If these rule changes occur, I would like to see it that that eah set of rules are not run together at the same shoot. Each new class, should have its own day at the range, not mixed together on the one day.

It will mean more shoots to attend?

One rule which would be nice, LG to 10 shots at 1000yds and 10 shots in Fly. Only so you get to shoot more at a comp.

Rinso, at least you know how I feel about this..... I though my post was constructive... totally against it! HA!!!

Cheers
AI

[Rinso]

Blackpete,
I am with you mate, I like it like it is now .. but a few small changes for the GOOD of the sport I can live with. I mean small changes.

AI,
I think it is good that you a passionate I was just making an observation.
I don't believe that the sport LR BR or F class will disappear so you can relax on that. I do believe that FO has a much brighter future than FS.

What I would like to see is people developing views based on IMPROVING and INCREASING the sport not just on helping themselves. Afterall the changes and political interfence over the last few years it would be good to see us all work together.

I like shooting blind, I like shooting off a bench, I dont mind if you want to lie down and shoot just don't try and make me do it ..(been there, done that, moved on)

I do however think that we can work together. Some people just need to get out of their comfort zones a little bit for the good of shooting sports.

Anyway 'what would I know' I am just a shooter.

cheers
Rinso

[Blackpete]

I think the girls on the live chat had a good idea the other night, one of the ideas i liked was publicity, in Townsville (in the past) jr has arranged tv & news paper reporters to come out on our Peter Short week end the news items turned out pretty well.

I think if we all can get some media coverage (for our bigger shoots) it can only do the sport good. I will be having a chat to Jeff later to ask if we can run a full story on long range shooting just before the Peter Short and hopefully have some pic's of the Townsville team and our rifles.

If we are able to do this i think it would be great if you guys down south could send some pic's up so we can create the old "North v's South" scenario, people all over love that type of thing, just look at the state of origin and the support it gets.
Pete.

[woob614271]

I'm a newby to the long range game (fly, 1K, and now 600 yard) but am restricted by both my and family health problems, but...
This reminds me of how IPSC was stuffed by people altering a perfecty good system either for their own advantage, political correctness (no such thing - how can nything political be correct?), or in some cases, to allow themselves to 'cheat'.
Sure, let's split the shooting/scoring system to allow both blind and marked comps, but we'll still have classes/grades/differentiations where there are nly one or two competitors in each, even at major or national shoots. I personally don't like winnig that way, although I've done it in the past. Can't we KISS it?
Sinserely,
Geoff Rath

[Tony Z]

Geoff, you are dead right about IPSC. Even one of its founding members in the US, Jeff Cooper, has recently said that he no longer participates because it has been barstardised to a point where it is no longer a shoot for the services as he had set it out to be.
The pattern is usually a few that wish to change the rules then threaten that if the rules aren't changed, they know of some that will leave. The next part of the pattern is that when they still can't win or be competitive, they want grading or some form of seperation. The next part of the pattern is for the shoot to disappear into oblivion as like what happened to BR50 in 1999.

Tony Z.