What does the carbon mean??

patroldog · Post by **patroldog** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:59 pm

I was putting away some empty .223R shells from a recent shoot and noticed that all the Highland AX 55gr shells had carbon around the necks, whereas the Federal PowerShok 55gr shells had clean necks. So, I am now intrigued as to what is the significance of this? Any ideas?

fenring · Post by **fenring** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:53 pm

Could be a slower powder in one make of ammo - the case expands at a slower rate, so you don't get as immediate a seal as what you will with a faster powder, and some soot ends up on the neck. My 6.5 Swede does it with the lighter bullets, as there's a lot of freebore and this stops the neck filling the chamber as quickly - so I get sooty necks.

That's one thing it could be. Could also be harder brass in the sooty ones - slower case expansion and soot results. Also tiny differences in neck thickness maybe.

Just a few thoughts.

ogre6br · Post by **ogre6br** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:01 pm

are these factory loads or your reloads in 2 different brands of brass?

later
P

Knackers · Post by **Knackers** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:31 pm

Yep what Fenring said and also maybe the Fed's are just loaded up a lot hotter?

patroldog · Post by **patroldog** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:19 am

Fenring, your reasoning sounds very logical. Ogre6br, these are factory rounds, as I do not reload. The Highland catridges are manufactured in Slovenia, so perhaps their factory machinery are not to the standard of Federal in the USA.
Thanks guys.

Curtley78 · Post by **Curtley78** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:32 am

I would say a powder with a slower burning rate was used in the highland ammunition.

From memory, if you ever notice a white tinge on the neck this means that they have been loaded too hot.

ogre6br · Post by **ogre6br** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:39 am

patroldog wrote:Fenring, your reasoning sounds very logical. Ogre6br, these are factory rounds, as I do not reload. The Highland catridges are manufactured in Slovenia, so perhaps their factory machinery are not to the standard of Federal in the USA.
Thanks guys.

ok they are then loaded to different pressures
and there is a fractional diff in the tim taken for the brass to expand and fill the chamber- this is allowing more soort to cover the necks before chamber sealling occurs

this is fine
I am not sure your asertation that the highland is less quality than the Federals is correct-
the choice as to what pressure to load a particular round is a factories choice
just because they choose to do things differently to achieve the smae result doesn't mean one is better than the other

CIP standards that the yugo factory will be working to are in a fair number of cases tighter tolerance than SAMMI specs whish is the US spec

just shoot whichever is more accurate in your rifle and enjoy

later
p

Ned Kelly · Post by **Ned Kelly** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:11 am

G'Day All,
could even be the differences in the brass it self, one brand might be "spring" more than the other which could explain the soot on one brand and not the other.............

In the BR world it means MORE POWDER!

Cheerio Ned

Con · Post by **Con** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:20 am

As Ned suggested, one lot of necks annealed softer than another will seal off better than neck sthat are work-hardened etc...
Cheers...
Con

ogre6br · Post by **ogre6br** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:31 am

Con wrote:As Ned suggested, one lot of necks annealed softer than another will seal off better than neck sthat are work-hardened etc...
Cheers...
Con

unlikely to be work hardened on new factory brass

later
P

Con · Post by **Con** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:52 am

ogre6br wrote:
Con wrote:As Ned suggested, one lot of necks annealed softer than another will seal off better than neck sthat are work-hardened etc...
Cheers...
Con
unlikely to be work hardened on new factory brass

later
P

True, but different manufacturers brass is unlikely to be equally soft/hard. The sooting may have been from a batch of cases that were just harder. Either way, its nothing to worry about.
Cheers...
Con

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:11 pm

As the guys said generally, it means bugger all.
If and when you start reloading the soot shouldn't extend back past the neck.

Ned Kelly · Post by **Ned Kelly** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

G'Day All,
a lot will depend on when the maker annealed the cases, how much forming was done, if they were annealed at all etc.

All i can say is that i found lapua brass to be harder than norma for the ppc, norma galled badly on my neck turner but not the lapau so it had to be the alloy and its annealed state as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the soot, just the accuracy the loads deliver!

cheerio Ned

patroldog · Post by **patroldog** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:06 pm

Thanks for all the expert input guys, it seems that a couple of things could be the cause. I was just curious as to why? since the rabbits didn't notice any difference once hit. By the way my curiousity got the better of me, so I dug out all my empty .223R shells and divided them up into batches by manufacturer. Federal, Federal Premium, Remington and Winchester all showed clean necks. Only the 20 shells of Highland showed soot around all the necks. Yes, I know, I need to get a life! But this is what happens when you ask why?

AusVarmint

What does the carbon mean??

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