224 pill good for 5000+fps??

[Kenny]

300,

I don't think you will find anything to handle that speed But I am sure you have had a ball trying.

Does the first and second shots make the target though Maybe just clean more frequently

I have been trying along similar lines with my 6.5/284, throwing a 80gn HP through a 1:8 does not work well , but my first shot and ocasionally the 2nd shot would make the target, after that the crap in the barrell would just rip the pills apart and they would explode in a blue mist about 30m out

KY

[300RUM]

Thanks guys, yeah I realise it's the rotation forces destroying the bullets but this project certainly doesn't warrant a new barrel (hmm new remington 300rum though maybe). To con the reason for trying to drive a bullet at 5000 fps instead of 3200 is the difference in energy. It's more than double with a 1600 foot pound increase! I was hoping some people here may have experience with the relative toughness of certain bench pills compared to nosler BT's we've been using. Has someone tried some bench pills that didn't blow up critters very well at normal velocities. The reason we went for the BT's is we were "told" by a couple of people that nosler guaranteed them to 5000 fps. Not sure on the truth to this.... probably BS. Not sure about the clean barrel idea though as we are using sabots and no bore contact with the projectile. The barrels actually look clean and very shiny. Nicely plastic coated.

[lowndsie]

mate i know there's been pictures of Amax pills being hp's like a vmax. But I have some 52gr Amax pills that are definatley FMJ under the polymer tip. Perhaps they might be worth a try.

[Wiz]

Some years ago I had a fair bit of experience with the Remington Accelerator sabots that were available. Copious amounts of wasted time, powder and projectiles failed to get a load that would actually hit the paper with any degree of consistency let alone group.

I would wonder that at the velocities you are trying to achieve that the sabot would be bore riding rather than engaging and getting the required spin?

[jb747]

If it's energy you're after, I really can't see the point to what you're doing. A 40gr bullet may well be pushed at 5000 fps, but it will never have the energy of (for instance) a 125 Nolser BT at about 3300 fps.

[300RUM]

I can only assume because the bullets are coming apart they are gaining enough spin from the rifling and not bore riding. Yes accuracy is crap until you start getting proper running pressure with the correct powder for the job. Which is the hard part. But even then they are no tack hole varmint load but they will do what I want them to do which at this stage is minute of varmint at 50 yards. (for some videos) As I say I'm just trying to blow a bunny big time. I hear what you are saying about using a 125BT to do the job because it has bulk more energy. In fact my favoured hunting load for our smallish western pigs with the win mag and ultra mag is the 125BT. But what I'm after is energy transfer. The 125BT's will sail right through a roo. Unless hitting bone on exit they leave a 30 cal hole both sides. Though the inside is a bit sloppy. 4100fps will do that. I just figured seeing what my 220 swift does at 3900fps, 5000fps would have to be just shit hot! It's just a fun project but I didn't want have to start buying boxes of different pills to find they are crap after only using 2 of them. Does anyone know if the J4 jacketed pills are any tougher than than BT's?

[Kenny]

300 RUM,

The custom 6mm target pills I use are made on J4 jackets, they are a light frangible jacket that I believe is made to destruct on impact with the ground. I have searched for the expanded projie in a pile of soft loam and all I can find is small pieces of jacket. I think all target pills except FMJ's are made to destruct easily.
Having said that I believe Lapua pills are harder than the rest, I was sighting in my 6.5 one afternoon, it was the first time I had changed barrels on this gun, so not knowing what to expect, the first two shots missed the target, but hit something in the grass. When I collected the target I noticed a piece of 2" water pipe with 6.5 entry holes and 30 cal sized holes on exit, this stuff was about 6mm wall thickness, so they must be pretty hard

I remember reading about sabots years ago. I think the jist of them was to make a one gun owners rifle a little more versatile. I think if my memory serves me right, the projie is supposed to shed the sabot soon after exiting the barrel, as it's only there to stop the pill from rattling down the bore. I don't think they had 5k fps in mind when designing them

Every projie made, is designed to perform at a given velocity span, varminter types are around the 3000-400fps mark and game types are usually 2500-3500fps, maybe you are asking the impossible.
Have you looked at the Barnes solid copper jobs

KY

[ogre6br]

try a .224 cal 75 A-max

P

[The Kiwi]

What about a homogenis bullet, one of those solid copper jobbies whose name I can't recall?????? Barnes I think, would a jacketless bullet hold up better???

I just Googled it..... http://www.barnesbullets.com/ triple shock in a sabot might be the go, with no copper fouling as an added advantage.

The Kiwi.

[edwennink]

Concur with last two posts...

[walking_death]

Hope we can get this sorted, there must be something out there that can sit on top of nearly 90 grains of W748 in a 300winmag case and not turn it into a shotgun.

Bit of a waste of powder I do have to admit, over 125% increase in powder to get about 25% increase in velocity.

BUT HEY! This is not exactly a Fly Shoot round we are developing here.

This is about as sensible as a 5litre V8 motorbike!
Shitloads of fun, but no practical use other than to say "We did it."

[plasmaboy]

I'd be very careful of sabots in a 30 , the US army tested this idea with 30 and 50 cal loads , the 50's worked well but the 30's tended to be unstable and a lot of barrels were destroyed by projectiles exiting through the side rather than the end .. they gave up on 30 cal sabots after the tests

[Col. Pogy]

Hello 300RUM. All the US bullet companies have tech people on staff and if you ask they will tell you how much velocity a bullet will take per twist and caliber. Bore roughness affects bullets flying apart from velocity too. With my old 17 many years ago I vaporized many softpoints shooting them too fast. We call it "blue pill" as the bullet just leaves a visible streak of blue contrail towards the target and who knows where it goes, or you get specled small shreds of? on the paper. Now if you shoot your bunny at the rifle bullet exactly on target as the rifle shooter shoots at the bunny exactly on target, the combined velocity of the head on collision of the rabbit and bullet is sure to make a fine red mist. The bunny gun velocity should be chronographed first though and the sights corrected for precision. This will produce the ultra effect you seek. cheers, pogy

[Crazyleff]

Plasmaboy , you can use 30cal sabots fairly effectively. I had a box load of 308 sabot set up to shoot 22cal projecticles years ago and they seemed to shoot alright. I didn't really look to closely into their accuracy though .Here is a site that talks about Sabots for reloading. Not sure if you can still get them in Australia. Either way 300RUM have fun trying to get your velocity. I'll stick with the 4000fps I get from my .204



http://www.reloadammo.com/sabot.htm

[plasmaboy]

.. from the website
"As of this writing, I have not fired any finished rounds with the sabots"
As in most things , its a free world .. just be careful . Im sure I could find a link that tells you how healthy it is for you to eat rat poison , dosen't make it correct . I won't be putting anything other that 155Gr Lapua projectiles into my $1,000.00 match barrel