7mmjacko +muzzle break+ jacko =3.760" group

[sixmill]

Jeez guys, i had to check i wasn't on the ozfclass forum by mistake.

[Tony Z]

Stuart,
You wrote a hell of a lot there to answer absolutely nothing. As far as taking the bat and ball and going home, i think some-one may have done that in mid 2004. The sad part is a large portion of the 1K shooters have had to deal with that ever since.

[Mick]

This? Again?

Shoot how you like. Most of us are there because we enjoy shooting. I dont give a shit what the bloke on the bench next to me is doing with his target. I shoot blind because I find it more challenging and rewarding when it turns out well.

Continuing on with this argument, again, is really pointless. Each club can do what they like. I dont see it as a big deal really.

[a.JR]

S

[woob614271]

I have some as yet unresolved thoughts on the merits of both styles of shooting LR BR, but need to talk to folk some and think a LOT before I can put it down on paper, Oops! I mean the keyboard.
I've always thought that the real challenge for any accuracy test is the one shot cold method.
To check for consistency of rifle and shooter, that's when we get into group shooting, either "blind" or "spotted". Both have their proponents and supporters. I don't see any major difference; the only way to differentiate is for a major shoot-off, with all competitors shooting targets/competition BOTH ways.
is this feasible?
Cheers, and no name-calling please; that's for other sites.
ol' wooby

[Rinso]

Well I will say that as far as blind to spotted shooting goes .. I shoot blind .. why ? I shoot LR BR and the aim in BR is group. BR is not a score match by nature (yes I know the Fly and Hunter are different) but essentially BR is about group. As Stuart stated earlier if shooting for group then blind is the best method.

As for shoot off style matches the simple fact is that we do not have the numbers for that style of match to be effective, in the same way as th Americans have too many shooters which means the shoot off is a requirement to get through a day.

So lets all settle back a bit and have a think about trying to benefit the sport rather than play word games. Here's a few ideas I have and no my local range isnt 1k so I have to travel to Canberra to shoot and as I travel to shoots regularly I feel I should have a voice.

The whole issue of blind and spotted shooting was highlighted for me when a prominent F Class shooter travelled to a 1k match and when asked are you shooting spotted or blind responded with "If I wanted to shoot spotted I could have shot at home" the obvious inference being that spotted shooting was akin to shooting F Class. The man wanted to try BR which "is about group" his words.

Now we have two shoots in essence one is a group match (or at least favours) the other is a score match ala F Class off a bench. The essential difference is that the spotted shooter gets feedback while the blind shooter does not .. I feel that if both were recognised (and I dont mean 2 classes or extra prizes etc) in records and match results so that those shooting either method could compare results across the country with other shooters using the same method we would be closer to a national format.

I dont want a winner in each but I would ike to know what other blind shooters are doing at Brisbane & Townsville. I think Mick made a simple adjustment on his results sheets at Canberra RC by using * to denote blind shooters. I dont see the harm in this ???

I would also add that if this can remain a positive discussion we might make some progress and if it can't remain positive and polite then we should consider not embarrassing our sport with a public mud slinging match which solves nothing and makes us all look pitiful.

cheers
Rinso aka Dave Purcell (no anomity here)

[Tony Z]

To everyone that has posted, i just want to make this clear. I do not nor ever will care who shoots blind or who shoots spotted. It is the process of how we get to the rules i question, not the outcome.
I personally take responsibility for dragging this crap through the gutter like i detest how it happens on other forums.
Our clubs stance says we will not change what we had, and that we will be very vocal about any future change to any part of 1K if that is to happen without a direct and transparent method. Don't send us any rules draft and ask us to hold the jar of Vaseline, send us a proposal and treat us as a peer and not a subordinate.
This is the final post i will make on this topic in the open forum.

Tony Z.

[dg]

z

[Ackley Improved]

How I see it

Shooting blind should result in a better group than spotted due to putting rounds down quick and not having to wait for the target to be pulled. This is what I will use now as I am chasing group size, and score is not that important to me.

Spotted should get better results for score due to seeing where shots land and adjusting. If I were after score, I would shoot this way.

It is my preference and I do not care for anyone elses way. Of course I would like to walk away the winner, but it would mean more to me to sink my own groups and keep them at a average...

The debate between them... there should be none. If people are that worried about either way they should give up shooting. Use your preferred way and shoot. I am in it for shooting, having fun. If this debate is ruining your shooting experience, go play golf! Easy as that......1000yd BR is not for you.

What a WANK! Just go shoot and have fun FFS!

Now, if you want something with a challenge... organise a tactical/sniper type match here in Oz like they run in the US. Then we can see who really is a great shot.... field conditions.. the first round out of the the barrel counts everytime, no spotters, shooting at targets at unknown distances, shooting off different structures, shooting to 1000yds in kneeling position.. shooting at running targets.... have to run to get the heart rate up and then having to engage 4 targets with 2 shots within 45 seconds with a bolt gun... This is marksman...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qf9DVC-mg8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers
AI

[woob614271]

AI, you're a bloody sadist. Are you trying to kill off us ol' woobies?

[Rinso]

AI,

shooting at running targets

How much start do we have to give you ??? Or do you just run around in circles ???


cheers
Rinso

[trevort]

AI,

shooting at running targets

How much start do we have to give you ??? Or do you just run around in circles ???


cheers
Rinso

Priceless.

FWIW, blind shooting was just too scary a proposition for a complete newbie who was daunted by the sheer distance. I thought the thing was about score and adjusted aim to keep in the blue. The penny dropped when Rinso explained I could never get a good group doing this. Looking forward to my next attempt, I might try blind to go for group, only problem, the group might be in the sandhill at the butts!

[Muz]

Congratulations Jacko, Well done mate!!!

And congratulations to Matt!! Someone told me recently that these Savages were a HOT item - I think there is no doubting that now...

Also congratuations to Stuart and Annie and everyone else you has been a driving force to get another great 1000yd benchline setup and operational.

Can't wait for the shoot at the end of July!!

Cheers

Muz

P.S. Any just quietly who gives a rusty F$#K how these guys decided to shoot. The fact is that they turned up on the day had a ball and shot very well. Which is what everyone should be focusing on, building the sport, not creating division.

[243redmist]

How I see it

What a WANK! Just go shoot and have fun FFS!

Now, if you want something with a challenge... organise a tactical/sniper type match here in Oz like they run in the US. Then we can see who really is a great shot.... field conditions.. the first round out of the the barrel counts everytime, no spotters, shooting at targets at unknown distances, shooting off different structures, shooting to 1000yds in kneeling position.. shooting at running targets.... have to run to get the heart rate up and then having to engage 4 targets with 2 shots within 45 seconds with a bolt gun... This is marksman...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qf9DVC-mg8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers
AI

Love it AI not a wind flag in sight.
Now thats a how it should be done.lol