7mmjacko +muzzle break+ jacko =3.760" group

[dg]

received a phone call from a fairly excited jacko yesterday morning.

shooting "blind" in brisbane, he managed a 3.760" light gun group at 1000yds!

you could say he was fairly

cheers
daveg

[Ian D]

7MM JACKO, GOSH THAT HAS A RING TO IT.
GOOD SHOOTING a.Jacko
Ian Davis

[a.JR]

s

[Tony Z]

Well done Jacko. I see that there are still some #00-326 batch 162 Amaxs about. At a guess i would say that there were some other "blind" shooters there aswell going by the groups results i saw posted.
When some-one shoots a group like that, it should be framed. Shame there was no take home target.
Oh well. Well done to all.

Tony Z

[Rinso]

Well done Jacko .. thats one to remember

cheers
Rinso

[Blackpete]

holly crap, is this bloke coming to Townsville for the ironman weekend.

pete.

[BRT]

Finally worked how to post a photo or two..... I think. Anyway here is a picture of Jacko and his small group shot in Brisbane yesterday. Was a great effort. Also a great effort was the second smallest group shot by local Matt Bulmer in only his 2nd match. His group was a 4.077" and he was shooting a new Savage F Class rifle. FACTORY GUN. Photo also attached. He actually shot spotted. I cannot see why you have to keep making a big deal about shooting blind compared to shooting spotted JR and Tony. Don't know whether you just can't help taking a swipe or what it is but we're all getting tired of it.

I have always said that if you want to chase the small groups shooting blind would be a better choice. I choose to shoot blind in HG myself yesterday just for the heck of it. Some people choose to shoot one target blind and then maybe the other two targets spotted (which of course they can choose).


Anyway this was the first match for our new benches, firing line and new target frames here in Brisbane. It has exceeded everybodies expectations so we are all just rapt and proud of it. It has taken a lot of work (and money) to get to this stage but when we finish there will be a facilty here for 50 years or more. Long since we've all gone anyway.

If anyone is coming to our July feature match and wants more information, entry details or the 1000yd rules just email Annie or I at BRT@benchrest.com.au

[Rinso]

Stuart,

Those benches look good and very well spaced. Good to see another venue get really set up for matches. Well done.

cheers
Rinso

[BRT]

Rinso,
Yep we are all very happy with it. Been a lot of hard work and it's paid off. Yesterday was just a great day. Jacko and Matt shot a couple of very nice groups but so did others. Mostly everyone just had a great day. One of those times when everybody went home with a smile on their dial. We had a lot of interested lookers who stayed all day. We have a lot of visiblity now having 4 lanes of traffic going past all day and getting a good look. Old Cleveland Road is a busy road. Anyway hopefully a positive show for the shooting sports. Am posting a picture here showing just how close that traffic is. Was taken last week from the centre median strip during final working bee.
Might as well post some more pictures as well. We like showing it off, hope others enjoy it also.

BTW congratulations to Ian Davis from all of us on a fantastic result in Batemans Bay. We are all looking forward to seeing him up here for our ASG match on July 25th and 26th.

Stuart.

[Tony Z]

My apologies. Great to see Jacko got to keep his group after all.

Tony Z.

[a.JR]

t.

[Kenny]

Congratulations to Jacko...jeez the bar has been raised again

You dunno just how happy I am that it was a 7mm too

As for spotted or blind..I think the choice should be given to the shooter

Congrats Brisbane I can only imagine the time you blokes put into that firing line, well done ...dang that's close to the road Ya wouldn't want to be driving past with the window down and a hot cuppa in your hand

KY

[Tony Z]

Stuart said.........

I cannot see why you have to keep making a big deal about shooting blind compared to shooting spotted JR and Tony. Don't know whether you just can't help taking a swipe or what it is but we're all getting tired of it.

Well i didn't think i was as transparent as that. I should word my posts a little more cryptically so that only the blind shooters know what i'm on about.

Well Stuart, there has been enough time now for the spotted method to establish itself as a viable option for 1K and as you know i gave it the benefit of the doubt for quite some time before i became vocal about it on public forums like this. Privately, well all that know me have long known my view on this topic. I note that you shot blind at this match, and for the first time in a long time, you have returned both scores and groups worth keeping toward a six match on an obviously difficult range. Just may be something in that or is it to far down the track?
The fact that blind shooters are completely dominating the sports two facets, group and score, is evidence enough that we have moved sideways with this folly, and not moved forward in my view. The numbers have not grown to a point that one would think that it would be worthwhile sitting it out for a while longer and keeping our objections private.
I am certainly the first to say that i am still suprised that the score side of the match has not been grabbed hold of by some-one somewhere and given the six match aggs a shake. Four years in November and still no-one has eclipsed the marks set prior to this in either class. If this is about social experiments then there are far better and cheaper options than 1K BR and to think that some of us are driven by the win at all costs mentallity is wrong and insulting. I can think of nothing worse than running my HG to compete against a bunch of FClassers and TR/MR shooters just to prove a point that "my way" is right. I would rather stay back here and play golf.

The real beef i think that most of us have with this whole fiasco, is that at no time was there a situation of consultation on the incoming rules. Forsure, Canberra can do what it wants as can Brisbane and now Townsville has collectively voted to dump the spotted method completely from all our matches as soon as the Iron Man is over.
The National rules proposal that was drafted was just that, a rules proposal. There was never a consultation of if indeed we even thought the marked system was viable. Had this been done democratically and with consultation with all the shooters throughout Australia, it would most likely have never gotten off the ground. But i guess you knew that already. If the majority had ruled and spotted was a go, then we would never have said a word to this day. Never shot it, but definetly not said a word.

Foolishly we agreed to accept the rules proposal at face value, for the sake of unity more than anything else, but we always had it in mind to dump it if it could not prove itself to be of benefit. Jeff and i tried to get the ball rolling on two attempts and offered cash prizes to a 1K match that would have the rules heavily favouring the FClass and TR/MR type of shooters, spotted and all, even to the point of exclusion of both our HGs to not ward off any potential shooters. In 8 years we have had absolutely zero interest from anyone from that ilk, and that may say more about us than them, but nonetheless the time has come to make the stance that benefits the shooters we have. My original stance was to not even consider the spotted method in any form for our club and to this day i have not read past the preamble on either of the rules drafts sent to us. That was more than enough and i still have little idea of what is in that rules proposal and nor have i ever cared. What i know of the rules is what i recieved verbally from others that had bothered to read them. The rules were never the issue, it has always been the method.
I was only one voice and the majority went with it then. We see absolutely no benefit now and of the two recent additions to our ranks, Jeff Harrison and Greg Holroyd, one was of the view that it should be shot like the yanks have since the beginning, and the other was swayed by the overwhelming stats. We made them aware early on of the two options, and they still favoured the blind method. That more or less made it easy for the meeting to be called a few weeks back.

If the rest of the clubs wish to foster the spotted method and the numbers and interest grow, it is unlikely that we will reconsider this stance again. We are not going to incourage it here in any form and will do so to the point of directing interested parties to the FClass ranks, where this form of shooting really belongs. Maybe this is dumb, but it is what we have decided. When you come to Townsville to shoot after the 15th of July 2008, you have no option but to shoot blind, you will have a take home target at every match and you will definetly have a good time with a friendly bunch of people.
Finally i can say that i will desist from taking swipes at the spotted method of IK and just let the growing number of stats and the slow exodus say it best.

Tony Z.

[BRT]

Jeffery, Jeffery,
Mate "the way it always was" is unfortunately a bit general. In fact when we started in Canberra in 1998 we shot it totally as per the IBS rules. Probably the main thing to remember about how the IBS matches are organised (mostly) is they have a shoot off system which we do not do in Australia now. That is; all the shooters draw for a relay and then when they shoot there is a winner from that relay who will progress to a shoot off with all the winners later in the day. There is a shoot off relay for all the group winners and another for all the score winners at IBS matches in the U.S. This is the main point of difference between IBS and what we do in Australia. More so than the shooting blind part I believe. Sure they do all 'shoot blind' that is true but it is also because 90% of their ranges have target frames set up in the hill or the paddock etc. Most do not have what we have, regular butts system. From memory only the Virginia club has that. Anyway back to Canberra in 1998. We sure started having problems with this system right from the begining. It was a nightmare to organise those shoot offs and the shooters themselves did not like travelling from Sydney or where ever just to come second in their relay. That meant they packed up for the day. Anyway after we did a trip to the US in 1999 and shot at Hawks Ridge, North Carolina that is where Bill Shehane said to us "you organise things out there how you need". From then on in Canberra we started having all competitors shoot 2 targets each in their class and average the results (score and group). So that was the first substantial change which everyone is forgetting. This is more of a point of difference than even 'shooting blind' IMO. I think it was just after this that Townsville started their matches. Could be wrong but think it was then. In any case it would have been no use Townsville having the winner from each relay system with 2 benches so as I recall you started straight away shooting 2 targets and averaging the results. That's all good, I don't think anyone here has any problem with this part of the sytem. Haven't heard a gripe about that but I really wonder if most people realise this is the main point of difference. Anyway the fact still remains IF people want a system exactly as in the US then they'd better go build a 15 or 20 bench range like they have over there, place the target frames out in the paddock, put orange clay targets in the dirt around the back stops between each target for sighters and go have a match. Also remember to only put up a couple of windflags at about 700. You need to sit 15 or 20 people on a relay to make the system of shoot offs worthwile. Then have 2 relays at the end of the day for the winners from each relay. I would be surprised to hear if everybody thinks this is practical for Australia. If you like the idea it might be cheaper to get on a plane and hop over to the US and try it out first.
I am not saying here that the OZ system is better or that theirs is better. It's just different to suit local conditions. That's why it is also slightly different in the UK (where we have also shot). It's also why there are slight differences in the US between the 3 organisations. That's life.

Anyway enough of that. As far as Townsville deciding they all want to shoot 'blind'. No problem. Never has been I think. At other places like Canberra and Brisbane they want to make a choice. Should also be no problem. As other ranges take up 1k BR I expect they will also decide if they want to do it how Townsville do or how Brisbane does for example. I learnt a long time ago that you can't please all of the people all of the time. An unfortunate fact of life if you are going to organise and run shoots. I can take the knocks myself but the one thing that really shits me is those knockers and wingers out there who do a lot of damage to organising committees trying to run matches. At the end of the day if someone doesn't run matches we have all got very expensive varmint shooting guns. Someone has to volunteer. There are precious few in Australia who repeatidly do. Some have a go, cop some critasizm and then loose interest and withdraw. The majority of shooters are supportive but sometimes they need to be more vocal about their support to counteract the often noisy negative minority. Sometimes that noisy negative minority don't say much at a match but go away and complain and critazise behind everyones back or from the anonymity of their computer under a pseudonym. Eating away like a cancer. This does not progress the sport. Happens in all events not only 1k. Probably so far has happened more in the Fly Shoots. Anyway those people who are trying to get involved and help in an organising capacity end up going away and the next match just doesn't happen or falls to fewer people on an organising committee. In my experiance most of those noisy negative people have never actually run a match, never helped organise or plan a match and probably never will. They have never tried to get involved with any club committee to progress a new event. They are just users. Sorry if that offends some people but it's fact. That does not mean people cannot have a different point of view or should be able to state that. Its just how it's done that usually makes the difference to those new helpers staying on that organising committee for another year.

Jeff, we could sit here for hours and argue the pros and cons of the different ways things have evolved but in the end mate it's probably better that we just get on with it. So far it isn't too bad. Generally in Australia for our population size we do fairly well with available facilities. The three clubs shooting so far are continuing well, we thought. From what we know here in Brisbane things are going well and growing in Canberra and they are adding new benches last time we saw. All we hear is that Townsille is going well. That's good isn't it? Or has something changed? What is this you are talking about "no more options for 1K and 600yd in Townsville from July 15th" ??

I am sorry this is bloody long but I guess only those really interested will read it.

Stuart.

[BRT]

Tony,
The consulation process went on for 12 months with the representatives of the 3 clubs holding 1k matches in Australia. If there were more clubs they would have been included. It was up to the representatives from each club to consult with their members or otherwise. Jeff Rogers was the Townsville rep, Dave Groves the Canberra rep and I was the Brisbane rep. I reported and consulted with my group and was told by the other two that they also did with theirs. Two drafts were done. Mate if you were not consulted then it's not my fault. Putting this all worldwide for everyone to have a go at would not have achieved anything. It's the members of the 3 current clubs who have the primary responsibility as they HOST matches. The people who are not members of these clubs are visitors I guess. If those clubs decided to allow the views of these people that's fine but was up to them.

If you want to pick up your bat and ball and go home, you're welcome.