FClass and Sportsmanship.

[Tony Z]

A couple of days ago i was sitting at a good mates place having a cool drink and yakking on about shooting in general. I made mention of how well Ben Curley had done at the recent NRAA Queens in Brisvegas so I must say to him on behalf of all the LR shooters here in NQ, a very well done on a wire to wire win.
Anyway knowing what i know, i jokingly said to me mate, what's the bet that with Ben doing so well, how long will it be before there is a push on another well known and much avoided forum for his equipment to be scrutinised once again?
Well it's there guys and gals, a very tentative question put to the FStandard machine that grinds away in Victoria, that there has been complaints coming in from a number of sources after the Queens to look at equipment currently being used by some interlopers with barrels directly from the ooga booga (BR) ranks. So specifically the barrel profile or bull barrel issue has reared up again. Now a member of a very well known clan down there in frogs tit land, has carefully worded an opening statement to feel out the general mood no doubt. Now knowing how to identify a cockhead dressed up in a fur coat, this is just the start of a whole lot more to come, that i can be sure of.
The fact that Ben had recently gone to a State Benchrest match in central Queensland with his then FS rifle, a Ruger 77 Varmint, to compete in a match just so he can learn more about technique, load developement etc etc is not known by many, nor done by many with the view to better themselves in their chosen sport. This to me is an indication of the guys willingness to get to the top level. If someone wants to buy a busted arse TR gun and put a scope on it, and someone spends thousands on an equally legal gun by the rulebook, then what makes it OK to declare the later a cheat or one that has an unfair advantage? It is up to the individual to chose what and when they wish to do or use, and should never be determined by the loser. If it is to be a busted arse TR gun with a Tasco on it shoot only, then put that in the fucking rulebook.
Rather than praise the guys emphatic win in very competitive company, this has put a blight over his character as many have virtually branded him as a cheat. This is one of the most unsportsmanlike examples i have seen in all my years of competitive shooting and seems to be a recurring trend amongst the FClass ranks. My advise to any shooter, both young and old is two things. Don't go to that forum, and don't get involved in FClass.

The ink on the SSRs is hardly dry on the pages and there is already a call from the architects of these rules to change things. What needs to be added to the SSRs, and should have been there long ago, is an entire chapter devoted to sportsmanship. Right at the very beginning. The "watch this space" section of the FClass rules needs to be replaced with the "set in stone" section so that people can buy or build gear that will comply now and will still comply when it's passed on to their grandchildren.

Tony Z.

[Kenny]

TZ,

Great to see a shooter doing so well, rewarded for his efforts no doubt about it Congrats Ben.

Sad to hear of the rumblings though

Let me get this straight....he won, they didn't like it so now propose a rule change.....HUH....I just can't figure that one There must be more to it than that Tone .......else that would be just pissweak

KY

[sixmill]

The fact that Ben had recently gone to a State Benchrest match in central Queensland with his then FS rifle, a Ruger 77 Varmint,

Actually it was a stock standard sako vls, but thats beside the point. Ben is a nice young bloke that has learnt from scratch in only a couple of years, & has had his arse kicked a few times as well, which only made him better.
As for the F-class culture, i think this sport will not keep the many new shooters who are joining for long, nothing wrong with the discipline itself, but when you have to put up with,
1- sharing the mound with anal old disgruntaled fullbore shooters who turn their noses up at you & refuse to use different targets.
2- F-class politics is a disgrace, if you doubt this, go & have a look at the f-class forum, & thats just whats left after the mod deleted a heap of stuff.
I think maybe we need a new rebel f-class, maybe with SSAA or something, make a set of rules, then everbody just go & shoot & stop f#@king whining.

[sixmill]

there is a push on another well known and much avoided forum for his equipment to be scrutinised once again?

Dont forget about the trigger, Ben's been tested more times then Marion Jones & Wendell Sailor combined!
Oh, & well done Ben on the win, done your state proud.

[macca]

Read the thread Tony was talking about and couldn't agree more.It's getting a little old boys club,isn't it.If you abide by the rules written,good luck to you.It was refreshing to see some defend the blokes using gear different to what the Vic Mafia want everyone to use.
I shoot F-Open and F Standard and love it.Our club doesn't have this us and them mentality.The TR blokes do most to help the young blokes getting started in scope shooting.
But one of the reasons I don't go to a lot of OPM's is the shit put on blokes by the "elite" TR/FS crowd.It's not always verbal but it's often there.
Macca

[Matt P]

Tony Z
It's a very small group that your're refering to and most of us aren't bad sports. The same thing happened to Ben last year the only differece was he didn't win. The biggest problem is people don't read the rule book, and that part of the rule book was written thinking people would build a gun to the limit if the rules, and that's not to say for one minute that Ben's gun is border line in any way and beside it doesn't load, point and fire itself !!!

Matt P

[Tony Z]

Matt, i am aware just like you are that there is a minority we are talking of here. Nonetheless it is a blight on the sport.
You and i know the gun is legal, the people protesting the gun know its legal, but if enough noise is made the rules will change so that it is no longer legal. Now replace the "legal" in the last sentence with "better", as in assumed better than their own and you have the answer to the real agenda. You and i know very well that at a 1000 yards a good gun means SFA if you can't drive it.
Barb Moritz won last year, while Ben was having his rifle checked. Often. Do you think that Ben was put off enough to lose the agg by one point? I sure do.
The following year the cycle has repeated itself. Now its time for the NRAA to step in and curb this sort of action. Macca has given it the right name in calling it the Vic Mafia as this is what the rest of the country quite openly aknowledges it as being no matter where you go to a match. And it doesn't even have to be an FClass match as the legend has grown to the point that other disciplines talk of the FClass antics. Lets be honest here, when one feels a little down or bored, one goes to a forum like the one implied and reads a thread or two and comes away thinking that my life isn't that bad after all and that the moderator needs to go back to NZ to locate his balls cause he sure as shit left them there on the first trek over.

Tony Z

[a.JR]

s

[woob614271]

I know SFA about F class and F Open, but from what I've read so far, the prognosis for the sport is not good.
There is much I would need to learn to fully appreciate the situation , from both side of the fence, BUT the infighting seems to be detrimental to the sport in general, and the new up-and-comers like Ben in particular.
IPSC is a similar kettle of fish. Recent changes to rules allowed the 357SIG cartridge to be classed as "major" in stock class, but not the old stand-by, the 38 super. Similarly the 9X25 would (or may?) not meet the criteria. Huh?
Over 20 years of competition, mainly for fun, I saw the game being used and rules bent by the mainly wannabe's who ultimately lacked the skill to make to the top of the tree.
Seems I have a whole bunch of research ahead of me before I can form a proper opinion of my own, but to have dissention within the ranks of a sport purely because of personal selfish reasons will do the sport, whatever it is, a hell of a lot of damage, and we all suffer from such actions.
Let's keep BR and LR BR clear of such bullshit, eh, folks?

[Mick]

Yea, the constant suggestion of rule changing to make F class easier for mediocre shooters seems to be pretty much a weekly happening. And believe me, it's not just F standard that this shit goes on in. It has of late been making me consider not bothering and just shooting BR only.

As for sixmills suggestion of a renegade F class, I've suggested one before. I call it the "No sandy vagina class". That means you turn up with whatever equipment you want, 1K HG's, Rails, just whatever. You then shoot, enjoy shooting, and dont whine about equipment. Equipment counts for SFA, as has been proven time and time again. Wind reading, load development and technique are far, far more important.

[Ned Kelly]

G'Day all,
congratulations to Ben, it just goes to show what proper load developement and practice can do. It is a pity more shooters dont do this instead of having a winge. As a SR BR shooter who has taken up F class as a bit of fun, I generally concur with the sentiments here. That's why I shoot FO, it's closer to BR and rules are EASY to comply with.

I've seen similar here in Vic at a minor match where people were always coming 3rd or worse to the same successful shooters in a single class shoot what you've got match, so instead of lifting their game and becoming competitive, the solution was to split the match into std & open so they then have a better chance of a "win". Then one of these succesful shooters decided to shoot both classes this year, the response: it was suggested that a competitor be allowed to only enter one class per day. Nothing like striving for mediocrity................

I tried some years ago to use BR style flags and was immediately set upon, especially as I set enough for all shooters to use if they wanted to. Recently I used a SEB rest and the comments coming back to me showed that had I been shooting FS I reckon I'd have been called for unfair advantage.

I've recently had a 6x47 built and am now wondering if it was worth it, still, I suppose I can use it as a LG in 500m fly or long range heavy varminter............

F class has to lift it's game and image if it is to be considered a serious LR shooting event or it will disappear after new shooters get a taste and find it too bitter a pill to digest. I'll probably give it a few more years and see how it pans out.......who knows it might improve!

Cheerio Ned

[macca]

F class has to lift it's game and image if it is to be considered a serious LR shooting event or it will disappear after new shooters get a taste and find it too bitter a pill to digest. I'll probably give it a few more years and see how it pans out.......who knows it might improve!

Might not too.
Mate nothing wrong with the sport only certain individuals in it.Their mindset is to dicourage any forward progress under the guise it is against the spirit in which F class was founded.

I love the shooting F class open or standard at a different distance each week.It's a good challenge.We're lucky in that F class has become our dominant class.No one whinges about BR style gear, they just get on and shoot.That's the way it should be.
Have a good one,
Macca

[RDavies]

Maybe there is an unwritten rule, where F std rifles must use an Omark or maybe one of those fancy Barnards at the most? If they are complaining about his rifle being a BR rifle and giving him an unfair advantage (I dont see how??), then build one themselves. He is probably like most of the younger shooters out there who dont have long lasting ties to fullbore and dont have a safe full of old Omarks etc to build a gun up on. Last time I saw him shoot, it was a windy weekend and he shot good scores, yes must be his trigger

[HiWall]

OK, much as I feared (I had heard things in F weren't all that much fun). Could I use my Savage F Class rifle in Fly?
LR BR? Or just flog it off to someone who would use it?

[sixmill]

Or just flog it off to someone who would use it?

I'll take it, how 'bout a grand.
Don't give up before you try, might be good blokes at your club.