Reading the wind????

[Rinso]

AI,

Maybe the foam balls were still reading the wind right on my bad targets, but I couldnt work out the infomation given to me from them.

An interesting notion that .. although I feel reading different flags all the time can be very hit and miss. I do however accept that you can read different flags without being a rocket scientist.
However has it occurred to you that if you used the same flags all the time, that is in practice as well as in competition then you would be more likely to read them correctly more often.

I think it comes down to who's on, on the day. Someone could be missing what they should be reading, and the guy next to them seeing it no problem!

Yes somedays it all sems too easy, and other days you feel like your whacking your head against the concrete bench your set up on.
The best advice I think anyone can get as far as reading wind is;

Watch .. use your eyes and engage your brain
Elimate the term "thats close enough" from your thought process .. it never is.
Practice, practice, practice .. in all conditions. (If need be use a .22 to save barrel life)
Trust .. trust your kit and your judgement, you will make bad calls early on, but you will learn from them.

cheers
Rinso

[Ned Kelly]

g'Day All,
DG, Rinso, AI well said

To add to all of this any budding flag designer, go and have a good hard look at any matches that use flags and watch everything. You will quickly see which designs work best, some are better suited to LR vs 100/200BR but there is no point trying to re-invent the wheel either.

You will waste a lot of time and money if you do ignore previous successful designs. Ask why they work or dont work too.

Also, do some research into understanding aerodynamics, thermodynamics, gas flow, fluid dymanamics whatever but if you can grasp exactly how a fluid moves past an object you are well on your way. Dont worry about the science behind it all, just understand if 'x' happens, then 'y' reaction will occur. But increased flag/sock weight means slower response, higher inertia to overcome and poorer indication. This in part can be overcome by a longer vane/sock.....which adds to the weight problem in turn

Once you start to shoot, in 100/200BR I like to use the 80% rule, when the overall field of flags gives you 80% the same consistent story, you can be reasonably sure they are good enough to take a shot. However, there is most likely be 2-4 flags in the whole of the down range area that are telling you the whole story and you can be fairly safe in ignoreing all others......provided the wind does not change direction

I also if the wind does change, I like to keep shooting, but shoot a few sighters (this also maintains a shooting rhythm) to see how much the change is worth; if it doesn't come back you're ready to finish your group on this changed condition. Naturally you will have to work out different strategies for different shooting disciplines too.

More food for thought

hope you all have a cast iron stomach and that your head is not spinning

Cheerio Ned

[dg]

G’day Trevor

I think most can relate to the situation you described. I don’t believe anyone is able to interpret or disseminate the visual feedback that occurs when there is a “sea of flags”, all arguing with each other.

Knowing when and where to shoot in these conditions is just about impossible in my opinion, but probably not in the opinion of others!!

However from another perspective, the above situation can indicate “not to shoot”, which I think on many occasions, is just as important and is a factor that is easily overlooked.

If we look at the basic function of any wind indication system (to provide relatively accurate and instant information on air flow speeds, directions and changes) then surely it should be a reasonable and realistic expectation, for whatever system that is utilised, to be able to accomplish these tasks. If they are unable to do this, then questions need to be asked and changes need to be made.

Attend any registered benchrest match, and the odds are that a “sea of flags” has been set up between the firing line and the 100yd/m targets. To study the wind patterns that are shown by such a dense arrangement of flags is very enlightening (notice, I did not say understandable), especially on ranges such as Majura.

The swirls, twists, updrafts, runs and reverses that appear can be staggering, but if must be realised that if it was not for the presence of so many flags, then, their presence would basically go unnoticed, except for, when and until, the howls of frustration and disappointment occur, as competitors become aware of the shot location, on or off their targets.

As Rinso correctly mentioned, when standing at the firing line, the range may appear to be awash with flags ( for both short range and long range benchrest), but in reality the vast majority of the air space between the shooter and the target has winds, breezes, updrafts etc occurring that are not shown and are unknown !!!!

Each to their own opinions, but I prefer to see as many flags as possible displayed, as it gives shooters the option as to whether they try and take notice of them or not. I also fully understand and appreciate, that looking at the flags and actually interpretating the information supplied, are two very different and difficult tasks.

From another related perspective, in my opinion, the single factor that makes ‘blind” 1000yd benchrest shooting so unique, challenging and at times rewarding, is that, every shot, that is fired on the record target, requires considerable thought , judgement and guesswork in terms of trying to assess the prevailing winds and conditions.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not, but that is not the point.
The point is, that you have been prepared to give it a go !!!!

If you have the opportunity to try it, do so, and you will know exactly to what i am referring to, and what you have been missing out on.

Cheers

dave g

[Rinso]

For what its worth, I would suggest that anyone wanting to learn about wind reading for LR BR read dg's posts very carefully and file all information away for future reference.
I have watched dg shoot in conditions ranging from fair to bloody awful at 1000 yds and like everyone else, I have been amazed by the consistancy and accuracy he displays match after match at one of the most difficult ranges in Australia to read.
I would rate dave as arguably the best 1000yd LR BR shooter in the country.
So IMHO it pays to listen when he speaks.

cheers
Rinso

[Ned Kelly]

G'Day All,
I concur with Rinso, Dg and others, this would have to be one of the best posts on wind reading i've ever seen.

Print it off, and re-read it until you get it........if you dont get it; go to a BR match (Long or Short range) and look at the flags and try then to understand them based on what has been writen here on this topic.

Failing that ask queations either here or on the range, there are no stupid questions but you may get a stupid answer!

Ask the shooters which flags they are using and why, most wont mind telling you, especially if you're not shooting

Cheerio Ned

[Rinso]

Ned,

Ask the shooters which flags they are using and why

Another interesting point there old son. I might have 10 flags out but only be really watching 3, while I just sorta glance at the rest. Somedays as dg mentioned those other flags tell you when not to shoot rather than when too let rip.

I have found that one of the single biggest advantages is the home ground. Every range has its nuances and often a local can tell you which flags will give the best read in which conditions. So know your own range well and know its little tricks and you will have an advantage over the visitors.

cheers
Rinso

[a.JR]

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[Tony Z]

As an aside to this wind flag suff i would like to talk FClass. When i go to different ranges to shoot FClass invariably the first range you shoot is 300 yards or metres. The bone i have is that often the first flag on some NRA ranges is at precisely 300 yards or metres. So unless you are Quwasimodo and have an eye on the side of your head, you won't see that flag. You won't win a match at 300 but you can certainly lose it there. With most OPMs shot at 3, 5 and 600 yards or metres, points lost at 300 due to insufficient information leaves two ranges to try and pick it up. So often the luck of the shooter draw can and does play a big part on your score and this should not be the case. With many ranges around the traps tinder dry and when the roos move in and eat the one blade of grass left on the range, you are well and truly fucked. If you put out a personal wind flag you get chipped by the RO for having an unfair advantage even if you explain that it's there for all to see and use. Now this may sound like a bagging of the NRA from me again, but its not. I'm bagging the shooters for not getting onto clubs to have flags at 200 and 100 metres like a lot of clubs do have now.

Tony Z.

[Ned Kelly]

G'day Tony,
I know exactly what you mean, you may recall a couple of years ago (ozfclass) I put some BR flags across the range for all to use at a 3/5/600yd opm and boy did it open up a can of worms!

To this day NO-ONE has been able to explain WHY I cannot use BR flags. nothing i could find in the rule book, but I was howled down as an infidel!

Still, my mission is to beat them at their own game using their own flags

cheerio Ned

[Tony Z]

Ned, this is what you do. Remove the "BR" from BR flags and say that Sinclairs has just released a new "TR" version. And tadahhhh, here it is. In like Flynn.
It's the oogaa boogaa thing mate. Magical powers of the BR gods

Tony Z.

[Ned Kelly]

G'day TZ,
ROFLMAO

i might try it tho!
Cheerio Ned

[Roars]

[quote="Rinso"]For what its worth, I would suggest that anyone wanting to learn about wind reading for LR BR read dg's posts very carefully and file all information away for future reference.
I have watched dg shoot in conditions ranging from fair to bloody awful at 1000 yds and like everyone else, I have been amazed by the consistancy and accuracy he displays match after match at one of the most difficult ranges in Australia to read.
I would rate dave as arguably the best 1000yd LR BR shooter in the country.
So IMHO it pays to listen when he speaks.

cheers
Rinso[/q

Have already taken that advise Rinso

As mentioned on an earlier post I have read everything and copied most into a word doc for later reference. I have only seen the sea of flags once so far at Newcastle Hunter Class a couple of weeks ago. Will see them again at the end of the month for the qualifier for the nationals.

Rochelle

[dg]

for interest -
some wind sock info

http://www.windsocks.com/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/windsock.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.glenviewproducts.com.au/cata ... hp/pID/350" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/ ... 45_27d.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dg

[Curtley78]

I spoke to a mate at work last night (he is mad hang glider, his nickname is fruit bat) as to what devices he uses for reading wind.

Fruit bat said that he uses a various types but most commonly windsocks, he then went into a detail about streamers, ribbons and the more traditional pointing device.

He said that one day he was out gliding Wollongong and all of a sudden he noticed the flags were all pointing toward each other, the ribbons and streamers began fluttering vertical and then 'poof' he was sucked into the storm that had begun to brew overhead and there he stayed for about 45 minutes, unable to see his hands in front of his face, saying 'Hail Mary's' and praying that the bolts holding his glider together would hold.

He said that the windsock that I have (the one that was posted in this thread) standing at the 3.30 position would denote a wind speed of approximately 13 knots. He also has some reading material that he will loan me and a catalog for hangliding enthusiasts that has numerous electronic reading devices.

[Mick]

G'day Tony,
I know exactly what you mean, you may recall a couple of years ago (ozfclass) I put some BR flags across the range for all to use at a 3/5/600yd opm and boy did it open up a can of worms!

To this day NO-ONE has been able to explain WHY I cannot use BR flags. nothing i could find in the rule book, but I was howled down as an infidel!

Still, my mission is to beat them at their own game using their own flags

cheerio Ned

Trying to introduce some modern technology into the realm of TR? You should have known better.
Surprised they didn't burn you at the stake for that kind of obvious witchcraft.