G'day folks, first post here.
Firstly let me introduce myself. I'm an ammature shooter, kinda new to the 'varminting' mostly out of necessity, as there are way too many foxes out there these days giving my sheep a hard time - so its time for revenge. Most of my life I've just shot .22's and 12 guage shotties but I'm about to purchase a Ruger 243. To be exact its a KM77VT MKII, which has a 26" heavy barrel and a leopold 6x18 scope. It's second hand but has done bugger all work as it was originally owned by a deer hunter, who found it too heavy to carry around the hills.
Anyway I'll be doing most of my shooting from the back of a ute, so weight isn't a major issue.
What I'm wondering is what sort of ammo I should put through it. I've just learnt there are different weights of bullets for this gun. Please excuse my ignorance. I'm guessing that a lighter bullet will have faster velocity, but is likely to be pushed off line easier by wind and reeds etc - is that basically correct?
What would people recommend. I'm not a 'bad' shot. Recently we cleaned up 5 foxes at ranges of 100 to 200m with a .17HMR (a Marlin). So I have some idea how to take a shot but given that this is a new gun and I'm kinda getting into this I thought I'd see if I can collect some wisdom.
cheers and thanks
stu
Basic ammo question
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Mevo2230
- 17 Hornet
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:48 am
- Favourite Cartridge: 9.3*62
- Location: Mangertron
Want a hand with those foxes mate? 
I am a 243 driver and "roll my own" ammo. I use 75 and 95 grain pills, 75's for blowing up cute and fluffys, and the 95's for pigs and goats.
243 projectiles vary from about 55 to 100 grains.
The lighter pills will shoot faster and flatter, but are affected more by wind drift.
I am guessing you don't roll your own ammo so you will be using factory stuff. You can get factory ammo in 55, 75, 80, 95 and 100 grain weights, but a bit of it will be "premium" stuff and a bit on the exy side.
Saying that, if you hammer a fox with any of those bullets they will not survive it.
Personally I would want to use something in the 75 or 80 grain range just because I like using them.
A 223 or the HMR may also be a good choice for you as well mate, but the 243 is an awesome round.
I am a 243 driver and "roll my own" ammo. I use 75 and 95 grain pills, 75's for blowing up cute and fluffys, and the 95's for pigs and goats.
243 projectiles vary from about 55 to 100 grains.
The lighter pills will shoot faster and flatter, but are affected more by wind drift.
I am guessing you don't roll your own ammo so you will be using factory stuff. You can get factory ammo in 55, 75, 80, 95 and 100 grain weights, but a bit of it will be "premium" stuff and a bit on the exy side.
Saying that, if you hammer a fox with any of those bullets they will not survive it.
Personally I would want to use something in the 75 or 80 grain range just because I like using them.
A 223 or the HMR may also be a good choice for you as well mate, but the 243 is an awesome round.
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DRStuZ
hey thanks for the reply.
Yeah i figure for the cost of a loading kit then I can buy a fair bit of ammo for the amount I'll be shooting.
So 75 or 80 or there abouts.... sounds reasonable.
Any advice on whether there are better quality brands than others - ie those that shoot flatter or look after the barrel more than others? I'm guessing any of the major brands such as winchester or hornady or remington will be much of a muchness..... am I correct?
as for needing a hand, not at the moment thanks, I'm kind of looking forward to getting into them myself for a while......
cheers
stu
Yeah i figure for the cost of a loading kit then I can buy a fair bit of ammo for the amount I'll be shooting.
So 75 or 80 or there abouts.... sounds reasonable.
Any advice on whether there are better quality brands than others - ie those that shoot flatter or look after the barrel more than others? I'm guessing any of the major brands such as winchester or hornady or remington will be much of a muchness..... am I correct?
as for needing a hand, not at the moment thanks, I'm kind of looking forward to getting into them myself for a while......
cheers
stu
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ogre6br
- 300 Win Mag
- Posts: 1781
- Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:35 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 6.5x55 or 6BR
- Location: Melbourne Vic
if you update your profile with your location- town and state is fine- you might just find you have a member nearby with all the bits who might be willing to show you the "roll your own" ropes and help you make up a load.
I like the 65 and 75 V-max and the 70 TNT for culling loads in a 6mm- but these aren't factory options.
See if you can find a 70 Blitzking loaded into a factory load- will be quite devatating on foxes- dont expect to save the skins but
later
P
I like the 65 and 75 V-max and the 70 TNT for culling loads in a 6mm- but these aren't factory options.
See if you can find a 70 Blitzking loaded into a factory load- will be quite devatating on foxes- dont expect to save the skins but
later
P
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Simpson
- 22-250 Remington
- Posts: 593
- Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:47 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 22-250, 243, 308, ..
- Location: Brisbane QLD
Gday mate, welcome to the forum.
If you aren't going to reload, I would simply buy a couple different brands available from your Local Gun Shop (LGS) and try them. Unfortunately one type of ammo maybe fantastic in your rifle but absolute crap in mine.
I use 87gn Hornadys in mine with great results yet I have tried endlessly to get a load using 95/100 grain projectiles with no luck at all.
The joys of rifles and reloading
If you aren't going to reload, I would simply buy a couple different brands available from your Local Gun Shop (LGS) and try them. Unfortunately one type of ammo maybe fantastic in your rifle but absolute crap in mine.
I use 87gn Hornadys in mine with great results yet I have tried endlessly to get a load using 95/100 grain projectiles with no luck at all.
The joys of rifles and reloading
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Rinso
- .338 Lapua Magnum
- Posts: 2055
- Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:09 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 25.06
- Location: Hervey Bay Qld
DRStuZ,
Welcome to the forum.
First thing I would do would be not to buy a 243.
I would suggest a good 223 will be a far better option. Especially if rabbits, foxes & cats in the spotlight are the main targets ..
There is a reason most pro roo shooters use 223's, and its mainly because they are accurate, effective to 300m and cheap to run.
Factory ammo is designed for your purpose with a 223, while 243 ammo is generally intended for something bigger.
Just my opinion
cheers
Rinso
Welcome to the forum.
First thing I would do would be not to buy a 243.
I would suggest a good 223 will be a far better option. Especially if rabbits, foxes & cats in the spotlight are the main targets ..
There is a reason most pro roo shooters use 223's, and its mainly because they are accurate, effective to 300m and cheap to run.
Factory ammo is designed for your purpose with a 223, while 243 ammo is generally intended for something bigger.
Just my opinion
cheers
Rinso
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ogre6br
- 300 Win Mag
- Posts: 1781
- Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:35 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 6.5x55 or 6BR
- Location: Melbourne Vic
As Rinso pointed out a .243 isn't the cheapest option to use as a pest controller and if you are shooting mega numbers or rounds it might be a problem.
If you are shooting a few rounds a week 100 goes quite far.
yes pest control rounds are maore avail for the 223 over the .243 but they are avail- dont dispair- it's much better to get a rifle you like and are confident with as thats half the battle of staying accurate in dield shooting- the confidence in knowing the rifle works and able to make the shot
I use a .243 as my prime culling rifle for years.
The .223 is quiter thought and cheaper to run
The .243 puts more grunt on target ans as you just want them dead- dead is dead.
.243 IS NOT FR FRIENDLY- a .223 can be but not always
Besides Rinso just doesn't like the .243- so he's a bit biased
later
P
If you are shooting a few rounds a week 100 goes quite far.
yes pest control rounds are maore avail for the 223 over the .243 but they are avail- dont dispair- it's much better to get a rifle you like and are confident with as thats half the battle of staying accurate in dield shooting- the confidence in knowing the rifle works and able to make the shot
I use a .243 as my prime culling rifle for years.
The .223 is quiter thought and cheaper to run
The .243 puts more grunt on target ans as you just want them dead- dead is dead.
.243 IS NOT FR FRIENDLY- a .223 can be but not always
Besides Rinso just doesn't like the .243- so he's a bit biased
later
P
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Brad Y
- .338 Lapua Magnum
- Posts: 3256
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:47 pm
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- Location: Im here...
A mate has been using the federal v shok bullets that come with the 55gr nosler ballistic tip. He has taken a stack of foxes with it now (had it maybe 3 weeks) and says the ammo is pretty good. And as long as you dont want the foxes pelts, the ballistic tips will turn the buggers inside out nicely. I think the federal v shok in 55gr bullets are cheaper than the other bullet weights. About 32 bucks for 20 bullets they come to here.
Heres the results of a 55gr ballistic tip (hornady vmax) reloaded in my 22-250. A fox with terminal popeye and a cat with no distinguishable head. The 243 will shoot these bullets even faster and flatter!
Good luck with it, the 243 is a big step up from the 17HMR.
Heres the results of a 55gr ballistic tip (hornady vmax) reloaded in my 22-250. A fox with terminal popeye and a cat with no distinguishable head. The 243 will shoot these bullets even faster and flatter!
Good luck with it, the 243 is a big step up from the 17HMR.
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DRStuZ
Thanks all...
I'm pretty committed to the .243, only because we have put a deposit down. My orriginal options were a .17HMR - but ruled it out as too small - mainly because we have a lot of reeds etc, and the bullets were seeming to be moved off line from the reeds - plus I have a nice little 22 for rabbits - though they are not the main game.
Next on the list was the Ruger .204. I was pretty convinced by these as I liked the idea of speed etc. My problem was finding a second hand one with a heavy barrel - for ute shooting was difficult plus the cost of ammo - though I got conflicting views on this.
Then there was some serious consideration into a 22-250. I found a couple of nice examples, though again not with heavy barrels or with the scope I wanted. I was very close to buying one but the final equation came to this: the 22-250 was only $200 less than the as new .243 which has a fantastic scope on it - a leupold 6x18 variable, a heavy barell and was in pretty much as new condition. I decided on the bigger gun. Half my decision was I may as well go a bit bigger as it gives me a few more options for shooting a few other things if i decide to get into it. We have a few deer and wild goats around here also so.....perhaps a game licence is in order.
Anyway thanks heaps for the answers. Much appreciated as I'm truely a novice. Is there a glossary around somewhere that can help a novice such as me with all the terms etc? Wickipedia is getting a fair work out....
cheers again
stu
I'm pretty committed to the .243, only because we have put a deposit down. My orriginal options were a .17HMR - but ruled it out as too small - mainly because we have a lot of reeds etc, and the bullets were seeming to be moved off line from the reeds - plus I have a nice little 22 for rabbits - though they are not the main game.
Next on the list was the Ruger .204. I was pretty convinced by these as I liked the idea of speed etc. My problem was finding a second hand one with a heavy barrel - for ute shooting was difficult plus the cost of ammo - though I got conflicting views on this.
Then there was some serious consideration into a 22-250. I found a couple of nice examples, though again not with heavy barrels or with the scope I wanted. I was very close to buying one but the final equation came to this: the 22-250 was only $200 less than the as new .243 which has a fantastic scope on it - a leupold 6x18 variable, a heavy barell and was in pretty much as new condition. I decided on the bigger gun. Half my decision was I may as well go a bit bigger as it gives me a few more options for shooting a few other things if i decide to get into it. We have a few deer and wild goats around here also so.....perhaps a game licence is in order.
Anyway thanks heaps for the answers. Much appreciated as I'm truely a novice. Is there a glossary around somewhere that can help a novice such as me with all the terms etc? Wickipedia is getting a fair work out....
cheers again
stu
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Rule 303
Drstuz, G'day and welcome to the forum.
I would suggest buying several diffrent loads in easy to get brands and try them, preferably on the lighter side of projectile weight 55 to 75grn for fox.
If you go with the 243 also see if you can get a heavier load, 90 to 100 grn area that shoots to same point of impact in case you come across something a little larger. Can't believe I am saying that as i am not a 243 fan
I would suggest buying several diffrent loads in easy to get brands and try them, preferably on the lighter side of projectile weight 55 to 75grn for fox.
If you go with the 243 also see if you can get a heavier load, 90 to 100 grn area that shoots to same point of impact in case you come across something a little larger. Can't believe I am saying that as i am not a 243 fan
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Dr G
- 300 Win Mag
- Posts: 1841
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:52 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 204 Ruger
- Location: Not in Roxby Downs, SA
Welcome to the site DrStuz
It has all been said above but I would be buying a box of every flavour of factory ammo and giving them all a go because as simpson said what works in one rifle wont in another.
I am in the same boat as far as reloading at the moment so I use a shitload of factory ammo. When I am testing ammo I make sure I clean the barrel properly between each batch and fire a fouling shot before shooting a 5 shot group. I usually test at 100m and when I find one I like i fire some groups at 200 and 300m just to get a feel for how it performs down range.
As for 243 info I cant help here as I prefer the 223 for foxes (soon to be replaced by a custom 204. YES
). That said the next rifle will be a 6 or 6.5mm to fill the void between the 30cal and the 22cal. I am not suprised you cant find many second hand 204's as no one I have spoken to wants to get rid of theirs unless it is to finance a custom 204 project. Rinso & Keith will rag the crap out of the 243 but personally I think that it is a pretty good calibre when used for what it is designed for. I think it would be the perfect go to rifle for goats. Buy it, enjoy it and when it is worn out rebarrel with whatever takes your fancy.
Have fun and I am looking forwards to some dead feral pics in the near future
Dr G
It has all been said above but I would be buying a box of every flavour of factory ammo and giving them all a go because as simpson said what works in one rifle wont in another.
I am in the same boat as far as reloading at the moment so I use a shitload of factory ammo. When I am testing ammo I make sure I clean the barrel properly between each batch and fire a fouling shot before shooting a 5 shot group. I usually test at 100m and when I find one I like i fire some groups at 200 and 300m just to get a feel for how it performs down range.
As for 243 info I cant help here as I prefer the 223 for foxes (soon to be replaced by a custom 204. YES
). That said the next rifle will be a 6 or 6.5mm to fill the void between the 30cal and the 22cal. I am not suprised you cant find many second hand 204's as no one I have spoken to wants to get rid of theirs unless it is to finance a custom 204 project. Rinso & Keith will rag the crap out of the 243 but personally I think that it is a pretty good calibre when used for what it is designed for. I think it would be the perfect go to rifle for goats. Buy it, enjoy it and when it is worn out rebarrel with whatever takes your fancy.Have fun and I am looking forwards to some dead feral pics in the near future
Dr G
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Ackley Improved
- 6mm Dasher
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:24 pm
- Location: Albury
I shoot foxes as my primary choice of game. I started with a 243 and loaded Ballistic tips in 55grain. Bloody awesomely devastatingly fantastic results. I have used 80gr soft point, 80gr power lokts, 70gr ballistic tips and 75 grain Vmax. I love using the 55 grainers. They kill, gut and skin in one shot. Skin is rooted though...
However I went and bought a 223 and fire 50 grainers. Cheap as shit to run. Way less recoil (not much of a problem with a heavy gun like yours). The main reason was the noise. I shoot in South Gippsland a bit. At night you start firing a 243 and it echoes for bloody miles.
I still use and love my 243. My brother used it last september and shot a fox at 800 metres in the wind. His first shot was about 4" above its head. The second shot took it in the chest. That night out spotlighting a friend, Glen, wanted a go as he is an avid 22-250 user. He shot his fox at 420 meters. He was impressed. I do however think he would still have got it with his own gun.
Dave
However I went and bought a 223 and fire 50 grainers. Cheap as shit to run. Way less recoil (not much of a problem with a heavy gun like yours). The main reason was the noise. I shoot in South Gippsland a bit. At night you start firing a 243 and it echoes for bloody miles.
I still use and love my 243. My brother used it last september and shot a fox at 800 metres in the wind. His first shot was about 4" above its head. The second shot took it in the chest. That night out spotlighting a friend, Glen, wanted a go as he is an avid 22-250 user. He shot his fox at 420 meters. He was impressed. I do however think he would still have got it with his own gun.
Dave
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bustedleg
Re: Basic ammo question
welcome to the forum and best advice for you is to go with your own choice I use both 223 and 243 and love them both the 243 is great for a bit of long distance sniping at foxes just for a change and as for the skins as long as you manage to keep the strip from ears to tail along back bone in tact (for when they bring back the bounty) store them in freezer
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DRStuZ
Re: Basic ammo question
Well an update. After a whole lot of licence upgrading dramas (from category A to B) the old man and I have finally got this rifle. On advice from here we purchased some 58 and 55 grain ammo. Winchester and Hornady brands.
Haven't been hunting yet as we have just scoped this rifle in. Interestingly it was MILES out at 200m. It was shooting at least 18inches high and about 12 to the right. This could have been a result of being knocked or something I guess but the clickers (don't know the technical term) on the scope were set very wide of the target also so .... its anyones guess what the guy before us was trying to do with it.
Anyway the two types of ammo shot pretty much dead on so I'll probably go with the cheeper ammo for what I need to do - shooting foxes and the odd roo.
cheers
Haven't been hunting yet as we have just scoped this rifle in. Interestingly it was MILES out at 200m. It was shooting at least 18inches high and about 12 to the right. This could have been a result of being knocked or something I guess but the clickers (don't know the technical term) on the scope were set very wide of the target also so .... its anyones guess what the guy before us was trying to do with it.
Anyway the two types of ammo shot pretty much dead on so I'll probably go with the cheeper ammo for what I need to do - shooting foxes and the odd roo.
cheers