G'Day a.JR,
it appears the only time your not talking about LR BR is when your hanging sh*t on everything else....................
Just an observation, shame really, because if you put the same effort into writing about what you do know instead of hanging sh*t on the rest of the target shooting world, we would all be so much more knowledgeable than we are today.
Tell ya what, since I reckon I can watch and learn from others such as yourself, why don't you try it, ditch the prejudice, and keep an open mind and maybe you might learn something from the rest of us for a change!
Better still, I've got a spare "pop" gun, I'm offering you the opportunity to grace us with your presence so you can teach us all how to shoot properly! God knows I'm always willing to learn from a master. I'd suggest you bring your thermals though.
G'Day a.JR
Just which subject is that? I thought we were talking about accurate cartridges. I dont want to cause confusion like some on the forum. So which is it?
Getting, back to the original point of this discussion, AI said
"As for inherently accurate, I think any case can be made to shoot very well. Using all benchrest techniques, top components, near all calibers I feel would be respectful on a target, given the range. i.e a 30-30 can be made to shoot well at say 50m, but it apparently would not shoot well in real world conditions at 500m due to the restraints of the cartridge".
Sometime ago i seem to recall that someone here in Aus put together a 303 match chambered BR rifle. Vaguely i remember that it did suprise a number of people who were skeptical of the outcome. I think it was done to suit 30 cal bullets not the .311. It would be interesting to see what the actual test results of this were. Going on the belief that a cartridge chamber is nothing more than a pressure vessel, it would just require good bullets and barrel and a suitable powder and i could not see any reason why this would not be succesful. Mind you i won't be doing one for Fly in the immediate future .
Recent discussion on some yank forums has seen the results posted of testing done with a new 6 mm cartridge called the 6mm Beggs. This cartridge has been claimed to be the next good thing. I have said for a while that there is a possibility that a case could come along to unseat the 6PPC, but it would need some doing. What do you guys think? Is a 100 thou shorter full taper 220 Russian necked to 6 mm going to give the PPC a run for its money?
Tony,mate do you test your LR rifles at shorter distances,if you do what do they agg like or what sort of groups do you get at say 100,200mtrs.
If you don't test that close what is the nearest distance that you test at.
And yes I do believe that some cartridges are inherently more accurate and efficent than others.
G'Day Tony,
I'd say watch the 220Beggs in particular as the H20 capacity is apparently the same as the 22-100ppc that Mike Ratigan uses with much success in the US. Easy to form and shoots well without the apparent brass flow that typical tapered cases suffer from. As for the 6mmBeggs, I dont think it will knock the 6ppc off and most US shooters need a 6mm for sporter class anyway. I believe Jim Kelbly snr has been running the regular 220russian in SR BR with some success for some time now as well so on paper it looks promising.
All very interesting but the Beggs cases will need to do well to convert most of the top yank shooters and then the rest probably will follow the lead.
Oh, and a.JR dont worry, I wont hijack this thread as a SR BR topic and yes, thanks for your concern and advice to HTFU, I'll do that right away, but I do hope you also practice what you preach!
I'm STILL convinced that, as Tony Z said, with the right components, and a "driver" who knows his onions on shooting, reading conditions and so on can make ANY cartridge an accurate one.
I'll reiterate that I know SFA about BR shooting, either LR or BR, but consider this.
At one stage, in the good ol' US of A, I have been led to believe that Match rifle(s) were built in 30.30 and 30.30 AI which shot outstanding groups, consistently.
The same could be done, I suspect, with 204 caliber cartridges, 270 caliber cartridges, and so on. Wasn't the 250 Savage itself used for some time, at least in experiments?
CFrom my limited knowledge and research, the major factors in designing/building inherently accurate cartridges, before they even hit a range, is the consistency of the components. Look at SR BR... almost always Lapua brass; match grade bullets, both batched and uniformed; the shooters look for consistency in primers; smooth barrels, and so on.
so if you accept my hypotheses; all cartridges CAN be inherently accurate.
this sport is very much a case of "follow the leader/innovator", and the last real leaders/innovators, to my mind, were Pindell and Palmisano.
No-one and nothing, IMHO, since the introduction of the PPCs has had such a galvanising effect on the sport. Yes, there have been incremental improvements since, but nothing to match that quantum jump.
Certainly the LR field has spawned a great deal of research and development, and the need to really "read" conditi8ons, as both aJR and Tony Z have demonstrated repeatedly; although both, I suspect, will admit to being "caught out" on the wind and mirage.
what do you all reckon?
Cheers, and please, stop the name-calling,
Ol' Wooby
Every case can be made to shoot well with the appropriate actions. Although, some cases will do better at different ranges due to velocity and projectiles used. i.e. a 408 cheytac at 2500yds can shoot well.... but a 30-30 that shoots very well at 50m will not shoot well against the 408 at 2500yds.
So again, I believe that 99.9% of cases and designs can shoot very well using the right components and techniques, but some cases can excel better at different disciplines.
As for case design.. if it shoots well for what you want it to do.. go for it. Who cares if it is efficient or a barrel burner. They are by products of a rifle that can shoot well.
I'm STILL convinced that, as Tony Z said, with the right components, and a "driver" who knows his onions on shooting, reading conditions and so on can make ANY cartridge an accurate one.
Didn't any of you read my post .... solved this whole thing on the third post listed ... I'll type it again for all you window licking social speed bumps ...
The most accurate cartridge IS ready for it ...
THE ONE I AM WINNING WITH AT THE TIME ....
So all you have to do is buy whatever I am using then go your hardest ... It doesn't get any simpiler than that .. does it.
Rinso, yep, you're right, AGAIN! Just the prolonging of personal ideas is keeping this one going.
I was just pushing your envelope to a possibly unnecessary degree.
Cheers,
Ol' Wooby
.