Rumblings in FLY!!
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Kenny
- 6mm Remington
- Posts: 717
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:55 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 6mmPPC
- Location: In the Doghouse
JR
I don't care much for the grading system theory as, IMO like a golf handicap a good player can 'throw' a few shots just to stay at the winning end of that class, if you know what I mean
I don't shoot heavy so the change would not effect me, however do you think the 10 shots per target would deter some people ?
I think the 1000yrd rules should be exactly the same as the rest of the world, that way all records are contestable. I am unsure if they currently are or not
I do believe that every fly shoot should have the same rulings as each other, as per the Sydney shoots topic. Jimmy T are you looking at this
I would like to see a factory class for blokes who want to have a go You know like nothing with an aftermarket barrel or stock. From what I have seen, newbies turn up and some of them are disolutioned by the equipment used and the scores they shoot, and simply never come back.
I think it would be nice for blokes like that to be able to compete knowing they have a chance of taking home a trophy.
I agree that if changes are made they should be done as a whole.
KY
I don't care much for the grading system theory as, IMO like a golf handicap a good player can 'throw' a few shots just to stay at the winning end of that class, if you know what I mean
I don't shoot heavy so the change would not effect me, however do you think the 10 shots per target would deter some people ?
I think the 1000yrd rules should be exactly the same as the rest of the world, that way all records are contestable. I am unsure if they currently are or not
I do believe that every fly shoot should have the same rulings as each other, as per the Sydney shoots topic. Jimmy T are you looking at this
I would like to see a factory class for blokes who want to have a go
You know like nothing with an aftermarket barrel or stock. From what I have seen, newbies turn up and some of them are disolutioned by the equipment used and the scores they shoot, and simply never come back. I think it would be nice for blokes like that to be able to compete knowing they have a chance of taking home a trophy.
I agree that if changes are made they should be done as a whole.
KY
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ogre6br
- 300 Win Mag
- Posts: 1781
- Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:35 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 6.5x55 or 6BR
- Location: Melbourne Vic
good idea- couple of my mates tried FLy's and turned up with good varmint guns but were blown away but the comp guns- that wasn't that main problem- there wasn't any recognition of the new commersKenny wrote: I would like to see a factory class for blokes who want to have a go
no one came up to them after to asked if they liked it-
no one even asked if they wanted to do it again.
THey weren't part of "the" crown so were treated like leppers so they said FU and left.
There should be a come an try ticket you can do instead of having to join a club to compete Off road car rallying has it- a day ticket to compete for the day/event if you get more than 3 of them in a year you are expected to join a club.
The pricing of 3 "day" tickets is more than the cost of joining a club for a year anyway.
there is masny things that could be done but changing the rules as printed on the target shouldn't be one of them- I think the last rule about anyone found not having fun is being ignored and fly isbeconing to much like short range BR- to much drive to win/ compete/ be gear jockies.
My suggestion is a comp class and a fun class- comp class can be for the gear jockies and fanatics and fun can be for those that just want to get out and shoot and enjoy the day.
later
P
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steven
- .222 Remington
- Posts: 399
- Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:57 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 6ppc
- Location: Tamworth
I think Kenny and Ogre are on the the right track with a factory class.
A grading system is out of the question. The reason Jeff beat us by more then 50 points is he puts more into Fly and 1,000yd shooting than anyone else I know so why handicap someone because of that. My Fly shooting is only for rule 10.
Fly and 1,000yd shooting are different diciplines only the Heavy Fly rifle specs have been upgraded so the Heavy 1,000yd guns can compete in the Fly, therefore I think the rules should remain as is.
While on the subject of 1,000yd shooting why the fark cant the only 2 clubs shooting 1,000yds shoot the same farkin rules. It's bad enough when 1 club out of 8 shooting the Fly make there own rules but there are only 2 ranges currently shooting 1,000yds and there is no uniformity. You will never be able to shoot a record at Canberra so why farkin go there and waste your time and money.
Steve
A grading system is out of the question. The reason Jeff beat us by more then 50 points is he puts more into Fly and 1,000yd shooting than anyone else I know so why handicap someone because of that. My Fly shooting is only for rule 10.
Fly and 1,000yd shooting are different diciplines only the Heavy Fly rifle specs have been upgraded so the Heavy 1,000yd guns can compete in the Fly, therefore I think the rules should remain as is.
While on the subject of 1,000yd shooting why the fark cant the only 2 clubs shooting 1,000yds shoot the same farkin rules. It's bad enough when 1 club out of 8 shooting the Fly make there own rules but there are only 2 ranges currently shooting 1,000yds and there is no uniformity. You will never be able to shoot a record at Canberra so why farkin go there and waste your time and money.
Steve
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native hunter
- .270 Winchester
- Posts: 1435
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:07 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: .22lr
- Location: Ballina
G"day All
I totally agree with what everyone is saying,there should be a class where blokes like me could turn up and have a go at fly shootin, factory class with maybe trigger and bedding job only.
This way if you really liked it you could progress to "custom" class.
Good point Ogre6br-I know exactly what it is like to turn up to a club and be totally ignored,like you say "not in the crowd".
Ialways like to make people feel welcome at my club and most turn up hoping to have a shot, If they have the correct paperwork-It should be no problem.
I have been really interested by this 500mtr fly shooting lately and have been spending plenty of hours researching it-although I have yet to see it in action.
Sounds like some rules have to be set in stone or this event will go by the way side.
Regards
Damien Webb.
PS when and where is the next fly shoot within a couple of hours of Cowra.
I totally agree with what everyone is saying,there should be a class where blokes like me could turn up and have a go at fly shootin, factory class with maybe trigger and bedding job only.
This way if you really liked it you could progress to "custom" class.
Good point Ogre6br-I know exactly what it is like to turn up to a club and be totally ignored,like you say "not in the crowd".
Ialways like to make people feel welcome at my club and most turn up hoping to have a shot, If they have the correct paperwork-It should be no problem.
I have been really interested by this 500mtr fly shooting lately and have been spending plenty of hours researching it-although I have yet to see it in action.
Sounds like some rules have to be set in stone or this event will go by the way side.
Regards
Damien Webb.
PS when and where is the next fly shoot within a couple of hours of Cowra.
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ogre6br
- 300 Win Mag
- Posts: 1781
- Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:35 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 6.5x55 or 6BR
- Location: Melbourne Vic
your Qlders are more friendly than some down south here.
My mates turned up with highly tuned LR varminters and good optics.
.243 1:9 Rem 700 and a Sako 22/250 AI fast twist- both of them could shoot and have plenty of practice shooting at rabbits further away that I can see the rabbits.
one had a front rest and a rear bag one shot off a plain sandbag rest.
The guy the shot off the bag has one shot hits on rabbits and battute clays at 400 yards plus. but he uses it off his tool box so he's definitely not a gear jocky.
But they were snobbed and not given the time of day.
With a comp class and a fun class you can cater for both attitudes towards the sport.
It doesnt have to be dictated by equipment either but what the person nominates to shoot when they enter/on the day.
If someone want to shoot fun with 10K worth of the latest accuracy bits good on em or if they want to turn up with a big sack of lawn seed and their favorite smoke pole-- same deal.
Comp class can go for all the strict rules and weight limits and other rules and crap/baggage/attitudes that most unfortunately has crept into the high end of BR matches over all distances.
Prizes/awards for both classes and records avail for Comp class. The fun class prizes might not nessasaarily be for best group or best score or they do need some form of recognition.
Maybe an ironman award for the guy/girl that pitches in the most and shoots as well or the guy/girl that shoots prone all comp or some other suitable feat.
or the longest distance travelled
or the most ammo used
maybe make the fun class have upto 10 shots- best 5 scored scoring so one missed shot in a relay doesn't ruin someone day.
good scores are rewarded but if I ever get to one it will be about getting on paper first, then making some kind of score for me to beat next time not trying to score some IBS or other alphabet organisation record.
The way I see it Fly (and maybe all forms of shooting sports) need to get more people interested in it first- then provide a mechanism for them to go full out competative if they choose to.
not locking them into having to be a club member first before having a go.
just my ideas
later
P
My mates turned up with highly tuned LR varminters and good optics.
.243 1:9 Rem 700 and a Sako 22/250 AI fast twist- both of them could shoot and have plenty of practice shooting at rabbits further away that I can see the rabbits.
one had a front rest and a rear bag one shot off a plain sandbag rest.
The guy the shot off the bag has one shot hits on rabbits and battute clays at 400 yards plus. but he uses it off his tool box so he's definitely not a gear jocky.
But they were snobbed and not given the time of day.
With a comp class and a fun class you can cater for both attitudes towards the sport.
It doesnt have to be dictated by equipment either but what the person nominates to shoot when they enter/on the day.
If someone want to shoot fun with 10K worth of the latest accuracy bits good on em or if they want to turn up with a big sack of lawn seed and their favorite smoke pole-- same deal.
Comp class can go for all the strict rules and weight limits and other rules and crap/baggage/attitudes that most unfortunately has crept into the high end of BR matches over all distances.
Prizes/awards for both classes and records avail for Comp class. The fun class prizes might not nessasaarily be for best group or best score or they do need some form of recognition.
Maybe an ironman award for the guy/girl that pitches in the most and shoots as well or the guy/girl that shoots prone all comp or some other suitable feat.
or the longest distance travelled
or the most ammo used
maybe make the fun class have upto 10 shots- best 5 scored scoring so one missed shot in a relay doesn't ruin someone day.
good scores are rewarded but if I ever get to one it will be about getting on paper first, then making some kind of score for me to beat next time not trying to score some IBS or other alphabet organisation record.
The way I see it Fly (and maybe all forms of shooting sports) need to get more people interested in it first- then provide a mechanism for them to go full out competative if they choose to.
not locking them into having to be a club member first before having a go.
just my ideas
later
P
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Ackley Improved
- 6mm Dasher
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:24 pm
- Location: Albury
I agree that we should take the same approach as the US. I would like to shoot 600yd matches as well.
If we shoot the same rules, same distance then we are competing for records that can be held up in the US!! Wouldnt that be unreal knowing that a Aussie holds a record, and the US boys have to try and take it back!!!
I believe muzzle brakes should be allowed in LR benchrest as well! No backwards facing ports however. Either straight for forward facing. They seem to do alright in the US shooting them.
I would like to have a Fly shoot held around the Albury Wodonga area, but there is no range available for this distance.
It is more central to the Melbourne/Sydney/ Canberra areas, which would reduce travelling time!!!
Cheers
AI
If we shoot the same rules, same distance then we are competing for records that can be held up in the US!! Wouldnt that be unreal knowing that a Aussie holds a record, and the US boys have to try and take it back!!!
I believe muzzle brakes should be allowed in LR benchrest as well! No backwards facing ports however. Either straight for forward facing. They seem to do alright in the US shooting them.
I would like to have a Fly shoot held around the Albury Wodonga area, but there is no range available for this distance.
It is more central to the Melbourne/Sydney/ Canberra areas, which would reduce travelling time!!!
Cheers
AI
Firstly to Ogre, nowhere in the SSAA does it say that one has to be a club member to shoot on an SSAA range. You just have to be a licence holder or you can fill out the required form if not a licence holder. As to competition, if you are an SSAA member you can enter ANY registered match anywhere in Aus. Some clubs have this silly notion that they miss out if you don't become a member but at $10+ a pop, the person quickly works out that it is cheaper to become a member if they intend to use the range often. As to being left out of the in crowd at that recent match, that may be a Melbourne????? thing as i can assure you that that mentality does not exist everywhere. You and your mates want to shoot Fly, come on up to Townsville next July and you will be welcome, we'll get you a place to stay and after we can get you a feed of Mudcrab. Personally i hate muddies, but some poor fools reckon it's the food of the gods. 
As to talk of rule changes, i won't get into a wish list as the rules as they sit now in both Fly and 1000 (Townsville not Cantberra) suit me just fine. The only thing that needs to be considered is that as a group we are relatively small in numbers and unlike SSAA disciplines, we have no rule book as such, no committee to present delegates to for proposed rule or class changes or introductions.
The catch 22 is that to have rule propositons that have been democratically resolved and then presented to a committee, we need to have that said committee. To have that committee we do it either as a group ourselves or we fly the SSAA banner. To be under the umbrella of the SSAA, we need 3 active ranges hold Fly shoots as part of their calender in one State, and then we need 3 States or Territories doing same to be even looked at for National inclusion. Not going to happen with Cantberra, Tamworth, Batemans Bay, Brisvegas, Melbourne, Sydney and Townsville being all we've got.
The other option of forming an independant group committee i can see becoming a real shitfight because of all the personalities and egos in this game. That would most likely cause more rifts and splits than what has been in the last 14 years of Fly. The couple of people that have control of the destiny of the Fly are rightly reluctant to shift view easily because for every Fly shooter in this country, there would be as many ideas. Often none being the same as another.
Logically with our small numbers in Fly and 1000, the need for rifles and rests in both disciplines should be as similar as possible. We cannot at the moment lay any claim to any record in 1000/600 IBS as there are certain reqirements that need to be met for us to qualify for inclusion. Cantberra and Townsville shoot a different form of 1000 to each other. Townsville is a little closer to the IBS format than what Cantberra is, but niether is right or wrong, just different. The question is, since niether is connected directly to IBS, do we set rules for both the Fly and 1000 rifles and rests to suit an International rule book, as in the 1000 IBS, or do we set the rules for both here in Aus to comply with the Fly, as we know it now, which after all has been around a lot longer? Lets all remember here that shorly a third range, as in Brisvegas, is going to run its first 1000 yd match. I have no idea of when or what way this event is to be conducted. I would expect that the format there will be as Cantberra and that will put pressure on Townsville to conform to the other two.
Tony Z.
As to talk of rule changes, i won't get into a wish list as the rules as they sit now in both Fly and 1000 (Townsville not Cantberra) suit me just fine. The only thing that needs to be considered is that as a group we are relatively small in numbers and unlike SSAA disciplines, we have no rule book as such, no committee to present delegates to for proposed rule or class changes or introductions.
The catch 22 is that to have rule propositons that have been democratically resolved and then presented to a committee, we need to have that said committee. To have that committee we do it either as a group ourselves or we fly the SSAA banner. To be under the umbrella of the SSAA, we need 3 active ranges hold Fly shoots as part of their calender in one State, and then we need 3 States or Territories doing same to be even looked at for National inclusion. Not going to happen with Cantberra, Tamworth, Batemans Bay, Brisvegas, Melbourne, Sydney and Townsville being all we've got.
The other option of forming an independant group committee i can see becoming a real shitfight because of all the personalities and egos in this game. That would most likely cause more rifts and splits than what has been in the last 14 years of Fly. The couple of people that have control of the destiny of the Fly are rightly reluctant to shift view easily because for every Fly shooter in this country, there would be as many ideas. Often none being the same as another.
Logically with our small numbers in Fly and 1000, the need for rifles and rests in both disciplines should be as similar as possible. We cannot at the moment lay any claim to any record in 1000/600 IBS as there are certain reqirements that need to be met for us to qualify for inclusion. Cantberra and Townsville shoot a different form of 1000 to each other. Townsville is a little closer to the IBS format than what Cantberra is, but niether is right or wrong, just different. The question is, since niether is connected directly to IBS, do we set rules for both the Fly and 1000 rifles and rests to suit an International rule book, as in the 1000 IBS, or do we set the rules for both here in Aus to comply with the Fly, as we know it now, which after all has been around a lot longer? Lets all remember here that shorly a third range, as in Brisvegas, is going to run its first 1000 yd match. I have no idea of when or what way this event is to be conducted. I would expect that the format there will be as Cantberra and that will put pressure on Townsville to conform to the other two.
Tony Z.
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scott oz
OK, I've been thinking of having a go at one of these "fly" events & or a silhouette. The rifles I have are all scoped with Leupolds 3X9 and 6X20(?) all on QR rings and bases so changeover not a real problem
Rifles
223 Rem VSSF - standard
223 Browning A Bolt short action - standard
308 Browning A bolt McMillan stock - Remington classic design
375 H&H Browning A bolt - Standard except for recoil pad
I've got more chance of winning power ball twice in a row than placing in any type of shooting comp. (far more practice need) which does not worry me. I’d rather compete with and against other hackers but !!!!!
What I would like to know is are these rifles eligible to compete in fly events I'd be looking at the 308 and or the VSSF. Oh and I hand load. 
Rifles
223 Rem VSSF - standard
223 Browning A Bolt short action - standard
308 Browning A bolt McMillan stock - Remington classic design
375 H&H Browning A bolt - Standard except for recoil pad
I've got more chance of winning power ball twice in a row than placing in any type of shooting comp. (far more practice need) which does not worry me. I’d rather compete with and against other hackers but !!!!!
What I would like to know is are these rifles eligible to compete in fly events
I'd be looking at the 308 and or the VSSF. Oh and I hand load. Why are clubs setup to benefit members and further the sport and then filled with wankers.. anyone that isn't there for the sport of it, or the fun is ruining it for everyone else, because in the end it will become a sport for those with more money to spend..
that sucks because people like varmint shooters would love to have a go, talk some shit and have a good day, there's no fun in having people turn their nose up at your cheap rifle and shit rest.. when you could all be having a good time.
that sucks because people like varmint shooters would love to have a go, talk some shit and have a good day, there's no fun in having people turn their nose up at your cheap rifle and shit rest.. when you could all be having a good time.
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Ackley Improved
- 6mm Dasher
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:24 pm
- Location: Albury
All of your rifles are eligible to compete in fly events, but I believe that they will struggle.
The best (my opinion) would be the 308 shooting 155 Sierra MK's. The 223's would not have a fast enough twist to shoot the heavier match bullets.
Anyway, go along to a Fly shoot, have a go, and I promise you not to much longer after that you'll be investing in a rifle dedicated to this competition!!
Very addictive!!!
Enjoy...........
CHeers
AI
The best (my opinion) would be the 308 shooting 155 Sierra MK's. The 223's would not have a fast enough twist to shoot the heavier match bullets.
Anyway, go along to a Fly shoot, have a go, and I promise you not to much longer after that you'll be investing in a rifle dedicated to this competition!!
Very addictive!!!
Enjoy...........
CHeers
AI