BlueBazooka.com - anyone tried them?

[zzsstt]

The practice of trying to prevent grey imports is not uncommon, it happens across the world and across all items. I remember it happening with cars (mainland Europe to UK) and computers (US to just about everywhere). Local pricing is set for various reasons, mostly to be competitive LOCALLY. As we know, the importer has to pay shipping, insurance, storage and there are a myraid of other charges and risks that he has to claw back. Sadly then many of them seem to price their products to make large profits, even after allowing for such costs, but that is driven by greed and based on what they think the market will accept. Trying to prevent personal imports is the first line of defence. I notice that a famous German scope maker is specifically naming an unauthorised importer in their "adverts". As our new Treasurer says, vote with your feet!

As far as Leupold go, I don't agree with what they are doing/saying, but their product is still very good and the width of their product range is, I believe, second to none. Brand X scopes may be good, but can you get flip up lens covers? Or a huge choice of reticles? Or coloured filters? If I want a 6.5-20x50 scope with a fine duplex reticle (or perhaps a ballisitic reticle for my chosen ammo) and neat flip-up covers (not those crappy plastic Butlers Creek ones), and a lifetime warranty, whats my choice? That's what gives them the power to try things like this!

By the way, regarding TOZ, I have noticed that their web site prices are much the same as some other companies, but they also add a 2% credit card fee that some other companies don't.......

And when planning a personal import, remember you may have to ship it back for warranty issues, you'll most likely get no local support, if it's not despatched instantly the exchange rate may change, and finally your credit card company may charge you a foreign exchange fee which may inflate the price unexpectedly...... in addition to any international fee the seller may apply! Check your credit card statement and see whether you paid what you thought you'd pay.

[kjd]

zzsstt,

Hows it going mate?

Voting with my feet is exactly what I'll be doing. I have 3 leupy scopes and whilst I like them they have their flaws but I won't be buying another Leupy again for this stuff. It may or may not be legal but I don't have to like it and I don't have to purchase their product so I wont be until I am happy with how they conduct their business! Same goes for Nioa.

Noone has to support this but when I see things are twice the price as the US that Nioa distributes it just makes me mad.

A competitive free-flowing marketplace is best for everyone IMO.

[Ackley Improved]

NIOA is not doing the Aussie Shooter justice.

If they were not criminal with the prices that we are paying, then we wouldnt have to try and source the products from overseas.

For me now, I will try my very best to not buy anything that they have there fingers in.

I'd rather buy a more expensive scope where at least I know I am getting better value than for something that is just way over priced.

Example- 8.5-25X50 Leupold MKIV, $2200 from Australian dealer. The US will send me one including shipping for $1496. Where the F#$& does this extra $700 come from, when you got to remember the dealer in the US is still making a profit for the $1496!

FUCKING ROBBERY!

Cheers
AI

[HiWall]

I received my monthly Web Specials eMail from QGE yesterday. Interesting stuff - the seven models of MkIV 8.5-25X scopes now range from $1640-21 up to $2240.10 so I do believe there has been a significant price drop. C&P of the prices ......

LE54690
Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm LR/T M1 Matte Mil Dot
$1,936.55
$1,640.21


LE60070
Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm LR/T M1 Matte TMR
$1,936.55
$1,640.21


LE56090
Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm LR/T M1 Matte Illum Mil Dot
$2,205.51
$1,868.02


LE60065
Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm LR/T M1 Matte Illum. TMR
$2,205.51
$1,868.02


LE61990
Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm LR/T M1 Metric Matte Illum. TMR
$2,205.51
$1,868.02


LE63050
Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm ER/T M1 FFP Matte Mil Dot
$2,644.82
$2,240.10


LE63055
Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm ER/T M1 FFP Matte TMR
$2,644.82
$2,240.10

First price is RRP, second is QGE price

[jimbo]

NIOA is not doing the Aussie Shooter justice.

If they were not criminal with the prices that we are paying, then we wouldnt have to try and source the products from overseas.

For me now, I will try my very best to not buy anything that they have there fingers in.

I'd rather buy a more expensive scope where at least I know I am getting better value than for something that is just way over priced.

Example- 8.5-25X50 Leupold MKIV, $2200 from Australian dealer. The US will send me one including shipping for $1496. Where the F#$& does this extra $700 come from, when you got to remember the dealer in the US is still making a profit for the $1496!

FUCKING ROBBERY!

Cheers
AI

How can you say this when you do not know what Nioa's price to the dealer is? How do you know that it is not the dealer who is making the big profit?
I am not in the firearms trade, but I have mates who work in gunshops and you might be surprised how much the mark up is on some items.

e.g. Gun bags made in China that cost 15 bucks and retail for $50

[Glenn]

jimbo,

Nioa advertise recommended retail price's so they do know what the dealers
are charging because they are telling them the price.

Like I said in a earlier post Robert Nioa is try to be the sole wholesaler in Australia so he can charge as much as he likes.

I'm with AI on this one FUCKING ROBBERY!

Glenn

[zzsstt]

jimbo,

Nioa advertise recommended retail price's so they do know what the dealers
are charging because they are telling them the price.

Like I said in a earlier post Robert Nioa is try to be the sole wholesaler in Australia so he can charge as much as he likes.

I'm with AI on this one FUCKING ROBBERY!

Glenn

I think he meant that we don't know what the dealers are paying Nioa, so you don't know the profit that the dealer is making. It's a fair point. Nioa could be making 10%, whilst the dealer then adds another 40%, we don't know (OK, if we have any dealers here then they know, but the rest of us don't).

The fact that Nioa suggest a retail price does not make them any different to many/most other distributors, apart from the fact that they choose to put a price list on the web so that you can see it, whereas most distributors don't.

There is also one extra mouth to feed in comparison to the US market.

In the US:
Leupold sell to dealer at (say) $500
Dealer adds 30%, sells to public at $650

In Australia:

Leupold sells to importer at $500
Importer pays duties, shipping, insurance etc., shall we say +$100? (20% for ease of maths)
So, importer (cost is $600) adds 30% profit and sells to dealer at $780
Dealer adds 30%, sells to public at $1014
(and obviously the currency changes as well).

Hmm, all of a sudden it's looking like the importer is not ripping us off so badly, eh? The price is 56% higher and no-one has made an unrealistic profit.

By personal import you are cutting out the middleman, and so of course you are getting a better price. But do you expect the importer to be a charity? If you assume that everyone in the chain makes 30% (and this is the target that most retailers aim for), then Nioa could be making less actual dollars than the dealer.

As I have said before, the Australian prices for some inported specialist products (including firearms) are very high, and I do suspect that some importers are a tad greedy, but at the end of the day, the additional costs and risks, together with the extra company needing to make a profit will always mean the product will be more over here. And to be fair, covering costs and making 30% (as shown above) means they will always be quite a chunk more.... Remember, if Nioa can't make a reasonable profit (like I say, 30% is not unusual in the retail trade) they will simply cease to bother.


The following is total speculation, and done only in the interests of a more complete analysis of the situation.

Regarding another importer currently being recommended, remember that you are buying direct from the importer, so there is no additional mouth in the chain. In fact, if you go by company names, it could actually be the same company as the US parent. Now the US company sells via dealers (albeit that it is done through their own website), so the equation now looks like:

In the US:
Manufacturer (cost is $380, makes 30% profit) sells to dealer at $500
Dealer adds 30%, sells to public at $650

In Australia:
Manufacturer/importer (cost is $380, lets add the same 20% costs as we did above, to give a cost of $456) sell to public direct with 30% profit at $590

What does this mean? Well, if the manufacturer opens an Australian subsidiary and sells direct they should be selling at LESS than the US "dealer" price if they are making the same profit..... If the importer is a separate company, but selling direct, the price should be (roughly) the US dealer price plus GST, duties, insurance, shipping and any other costs, lets say a maximum of about 15-20% higher.

So, to sum up, without full knowledge of all the numbers, agreements, and company ownerships, we cannot say for sure who, if anyone, is actually "ripping us off". But we can guarantee that anything brought in by an importer and then sold via dealers will cost substantially more than its price "at origin".

[500Nitro]

Now do the calculations on other things you buy from Coles, Woolworths,
Rays Outdoors etc etc but make the percentages 100 - 400%.

And then ask yourself why you complain re price of guns where the margin is 5 - 10% and as shown on scopes yet have not problem paying 100 - 400% mark up on items from someone else.

22.5% SALE at Rays sounds good doesn't it.

[zzsstt]

After my previous post I thought I'd check:

TOZ, VXIII 6.5-20x40LR, Matte, Varmint Hunter - 760USD +2% +shipping =800USD

Nioa recommended price for the same scope is AU$1172 which converts to 1048USD or 950USD before GST

So the "rip off" extra cost is 19%, which also has to cover all the other costs associated with being an importer.

Given that Nioa's markup comes before the dealers (so will actually be less than 19%), I don't actually think on straight math that he is making an unreasonable profit.

[500Nitro]

After my previous post I thought I'd check:

TOZ, VXIII 6.5-20x40LR, Matte, Varmint Hunter - 760USD +2% +shipping =800USD

Nioa recommended price for the same scope is AU$1172 which converts to 1048USD or 950USD before GST

So the "rip off" extra cost is 19%, which also has to cover all the other costs associated with being an importer.

Given that Nioa's markup comes before the dealers (so will actually be less than 19%), I don't actually think on straight math that he is making an unreasonable profit.

Well I reckon if you work it out on the Street Price,
you'll find it is quite close.

[Knackers]

Sorry for the confusion, Trevort on Knackers puter

I asked what i thought was a polite but to the point question of Nioa on another forum and my post was deleted by the mod.

My VX111 6.5x 20 x40 from TOZ cost $800 Aussie landed here including card conversion, my weaver T36 $482.50 again converted and including fees.

My redding comp dies were attrempted to be sourced at my LGS "I cant get them wholesale from the importer for the price you pay to sinclair.

"why dont you import from Sinclair then"

"If the wholesaler finds out then he screws us by not supplying product that we cant source from os"

Business must compete globally now or maybe we should join the s11 protesters and riot in the streets to stop globalisation eh?

[Rinso]

This is all very nice and informative to boot ... but ... at the end of the day if a customer is not happy (doesn't really matter why) then said customer has the right to buy elsewhere or purchase a competitors product ... thats retail reality.

The issue as to what profit the dealer, importer, manufacturer or Govt agency make out of the transaction is not really relevant is it ???? The market will determine that in the long run.

The issue as to wether customers are happy or not is for the importer and dealer to worry about when/if sales fall ... that is also a retail reality

If Nioa or any dealer suffer as a result they will take action to stem the bleeding, that maybe to drop the item in question and pick up another brand or it maybe to decrease profits to regain market share or any of a dozen other options .. once again though this is up to the dealer or importer

As for grey imports they will always be around and as a result there will always be a market for them.

cheers
Rinso

[Ackley Improved]

If you guys are happy paying what you are, well fine.

For me, when products can be offered to myself for a reduced price over what is available here, why should I not be allowed to buy it, or the dealer that can provide it, not be allowed? It shits me.

He is only making 30%.. ONLY???? thats like the banks saying they had a shit year,and only profitted $16 000 000 000 000 (is that a billion). Thats shit??

If the dealers are the ones putting the huge mark up on the products, then the distributor would tell them to pull their heads in.

eg. when I first got my dasher, the dies were going to cost me $900! I got them from OS for under $400.

Custers decided to sell straight to the public, and it was great. This may have come about due to the dealers putting to much on the products?

Anyway, I am happy with what I have, just now I choose to pick brands where I know I get better value for money.

Cheers
AI

[Glenn]

I am still with AI on this one!!

Glenn

[HiWall]

I really think you need to look at a bigger picture. Here we are talking about one importer (Nioa) & one product (Leupold) - but it really would be more useful to look at and compare all of them.

There are some 'importers' here who are bringing in stuff from China etc. that are also marked way up by the time it hits the shelves in gunshops. This same stuff is available from OS sellers on eBay at about 10% of the shelf price. The only difference is the badge/name on the product. As an example, the Rock Mount range of bipods - cheap, poor quality imitations of Harris gear. Around $35 on eBay, $140 in gunshops. IMO these prices have been placed at this high level, simply because they are cheaper than the Harris and at first glance, look the same. Scopes are even worse and unfortunately, new shooters or shooters on a budget are sucked in to buying this stuff.

My opinion is that this type of thing is a bigger, more profitable rip-off than anything that is being done with high end products like the top of the range Leupold scopes - it is also more damaging as it is directly targetting people who can least afford to be dudded with a crap product.

I think it is a real shame that gunshops resort to this type of thing and in the long term it cannot possibly be of benefit to their business. I know for a fact that if I buy something and it is useless or breaks within a couple of days I get a trifle pissed off.

Importers of mid-range stuff like Nikko or the other brands of similar quality are basically relying on a high level of sales to keep prices down - and this is only possible because quality products cost dollars. So really without the mid-range stuff, their high end products would not be sustainable.

Looking down Nioa product list it strikes me that almost all of the stuff they bring in is 'high end', unlike a few others around that bring in crap that you really wouldn't want to buy anyway.

Whoever brings in that ProTac shit needs their arse kicked big time - simply for actively and deliberately selling shit quality gear to people who are starting out and don't know better or people who can't afford to buy good stuff and are too impatient to save up for it.