Heaps of questions from a newbie.

[lamanna]

Hi all,
I've finally got my first rifle(.22lr) and now eager to buy my first centrefire. It'll be used at the range, probably once a month but there are some properties I may be able to shoot on that have mainly rabbits and foxes. Although, don't interpret that as meaning a small calibre rifle, I'm keen on anything. At first I thought to maybe go for something that can kill everything to large pigs/sambar.... my reason for this is Murphy’s Law. If you buy a small calibre because you only have fox hunts available... the day after buying it you get a call to go on a sambar hunt. Highly unlikely but something to think about. A few calibres I've been keen on are the .204, .22-250, 6.5mm swede, 7mm-08 and .270WSM. Eventually I'll own a lever 30-30 and a .308 for 1000 shooting but all in good time. Everyone is telling me to start low because it's highly unlikely I'll see anything other than rabbits/foxes. In any case, if I go for deer/goats or pigs, anyone I go with will have something to take 'em down.

Now onto some questions. I bought my .22 second hand from a guy not too far from me, he works from home and has a nice setup out the back. You call and make an appointment and he spends the whole time with you. I like this way of doing business, beats any gun shop I went into. The problem is, I can only buy what he has on hand. Currently he has a .22-250, no idea what is, haven't ever seen one before. It has a stainless steel barrel and a red/burgundy stock with silver ripples through. I've probably described it poorly/incorrectly but hopefully someone knows what it is. That particular rifle is around $100-$200 cheaper than buying new, however, it has never been used. Not long after the rifle was picked up, the owner had a bad accident and had to sell his rifles.

The other one he had really grabbed my attention. It was a Ruger M77R MKII in 6.5mm. It was from the same guy so it's well looked after, it's in top condition and was going for $765. Not sure on the amount of rounds through it either. One thing I noticed was the magazine setup, is it different to one that you loads rounds into them click into the rifle?

Next thing I wanted to ask is what to look for when buying second hand. I've read heap about the barrel life of certain cartridges but if I were to buy a rifle I'd have no idea how to check this. I'll take the guy's word for it in regards to the bolt and everything else but the amount of rounds through the rifle I'm suspicious about. He always shows me the bore by shining a light under through it. Is this a way to check how many rounds have been through it? I was under the impression that the barrel wears away where the cartridge sits and particularly at the neck. Any advice on buying second hand would be great. I'm a bit reluctant to buy a rifle second hand for $100-$200 cheaper when I can get one exactly the same in the shop. I only wanted to buy second hand when it was an "old" model, like the Ruger, apparently you can’t get them here anymore... or if the rifle was a lot cheaper than new.

The next thing I wanted to ask was about reloading. I definitely want to get into it. I was even thinking about buying a set before getting my centrefire and using it to create loads for my mate's .270 and .30-30. I've read plenty about what's needed and most are telling me to get the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme kit. It's in stores for $600+ but I just contacted Cabelas and Natchezss and I can get it out to me for $400. Is it worth it to buy from the US?

Having not fired anything other than a .270, 30-30 and .22. It's a bit hard to nail down exactly what I want. In the end though it doesn't matter too much between calibres and there are more than enough knowledgeable people here to help me with that. Purely for "buzz" and something not too common(in my eyes anyway), what should do me from this list of calibres? .204, .22-250, 6.5mm swede, 7mm-08 and .270WSM. I guess I should first decide on if I want big or small, then teh choice might be easier. The bigger cals will cover me for most things but everyon says start small so I'm a bit confused.

Feel free to give any suggestions on any points I've raised. I didn't want to turn it into a calibre choice thread again, I just wanted piece of mind and to see if what I've been reading is correct. You're more than welcome to argue the calibres though.

One more thing I'm interested in. If you could only own 3, 4, 5 guns/rifles... what would they be? I'm planning on owning something around the 5 mark so everytime I buy a rifle I'm trying to be concious of the other calibres I plan on owning so I don't get much overlap.


Thanks for reading.

[Archfile]

I'd be sure to spend some time reading mags and online to find out as much as possible before a purchase.

I've got a 17hmr and a 22-250, my next would be a 30-06/300wsm or something, beware of the big kicking rifles, you might be able to take the kick just fine (i'm a big lad and its not too bad for me) but the flinch that you might get will ruin everything.

good optics are not cheap, everyone has a favourite rifle brand so remember that advice will be tainted by that.

I think for value for money you could look at:
Tikka
Howa
Rem SPS

More money:
Ruger #1
Remington 700's in the various more expensive guises
(I can't see much in the middle of the range priced rifles.)

Lots:
Sako
Cooper
Annswitz (whatever)
etc..

I'm thinking that belted magnums are not going to be the easiest to
reload, i'd go for a non-belted cart, especially if you haven't reloaded
before.

A rifle might be well made but if its uncomfortable its never going to
shoot well for you, at the risk of starting a bumfight, i prefer just about
everything to the ruger bolt action rifles, but my dream rifle is a #1.

I've made one hit out to 350m with the 22-250 off a sandbag, thats a
hell of a long way in the real world, and all this shit that you read on
the internet about 'my factory rifle shoots 1/8" at 100yards' is bullshit,
if you shoot 10 groups that small and one group 1" (that you didn't shank) then you have a 1" rifle.

Go outside an pace out 100 big paces and place a 20c coin there, walk back to the starting point and have a look at the coin. thats what we are
talking about.

-Arch

[dave]

Holy moly that is a lot of questions.

First up congrats on the .22lr everyone should own one, a statement that im sure will be replaced by the .17hmr in the future

Small centrefire for starters id go .223. Avaliablilty, data and resources, ammo cost and if in the right twist barrel has quite a projectile range. Thinking of savage rifles when i say that as from memory they have some slightly faster twist barrels.

As for a bigger calibre for deer etc look at a dedicated rifle ive sat down and tried to come up with a varmint/deer rifle and in the end decided i needed 2 rifles and with the competing companies and there budget rifles it was a pretty easy decision.

Um what else, ive ordered heaps of stuff from natchezs and they were great to deal with but always got stuff on sale to save some coin and off set the postage costs.

As for second hand rifles, stick with the good brands Tikka, Rem, Sako etc but then if you know the rifles history you can usually make your own mind up. The reason i mention the others is they are a good base for a custom rifle.

Also HPGS has rem stainless/wood .220 swift rifles for 800 which is a bargain and is a great varmint cartidge and one you could reload for with as factory stuff isnt everywhere, plus the action will be worth something to someone if you dont go down the custom path.

Think thats everything as for the rifles.

1. 22lr - plinking
2. 6br - varmint
3. 6.5-284 - bench
4. 300wsm - deer/pig/goat
5. 338 lapua magnum - dont really need it but hey!

Hope that helps.....

[trevort]

if you plan to end up with a collection then I strongly suggest dont compromise with a "generalist" rifle. Buy specialists to fill each niche.

I got back to this 2 1/2 years ago after a 10 year break and started with a tikka 243. Good rifle, good calibre, seen as the in betweenie, combo medium game and varmint. Trouble is there are better varminters and better medium game. So every thing else you buy ends up overlapping. My 243 went a few weeks ago.

Start with a varmint rifle for the properties you have right now. add your medium/big calibres when the properties become available.

It is dangerous hanging around this site where some serious shooters and a gunsmith live! If you end up getting the custom bug you will want to rebarrel your rifle. While we will all give you our favourite brands and we will all be correct, our gunsmith will tell you that a rem action is the perfect base for a custom job. If my 243 had been a rem then it would have been rebarreled rather than sold. Gives a big vote for starting with a rem such as an SPS( there is a new SPS varmint on the way). I have a 223 and a 204. The 204 came first and I am a big fan but if you arent trying 300 plus metre shots the 223 is fine. My 223 will probably end up with a 20 cal bareel someday though.

I started with a Lee anniversary kit. a very cheap way to find out if you like it. However once you do know you like it and want to improve then you will wish you had started with something like the rockchucker. I bought my supreme kit for $440 from an Oz based ebay store (did it off ebay) his name was Dave Ellis and I have his email address if you want it.

[trevort]

sorry, should add I am not suggesting the 223 cant hit over 300 mtrs. I am sure there are people on here that are better shots than me at 300 with a 223 than my 204 but at 300 you have to compensate for bullet drop in a 223 but a 204 sighted in 1 inch high at 100 is still in the middle of the crows chest at 300.

[Rinso]

lamanna,

I would have to agree with trevort dont buy overlap guns if you are certain you are going to go to around the 5 gun area.
5 rifles is enough to cover shooting with specialist cartridges.

Buy for your needs now so I would go 204 or 22-250 from your list.

Buy quality when you buy guns, the barrels go but the actions last a lifetime and can be recycled into wonderful adventures in exotic foolishness .... and its a shit load of fun having custom rifles in hot calibres.

I would in your situation buy a Remington XR 100 in say 22-250 its good value and with a switch barrel say Lilja 6mm BR would give you a hot 22 and a 243 in one switch barrel rifle for the cost of a barrel.

As far as second hand goes buy from people you know and where possible have someone with you that will hold you back a bit ..dont buy in a hurry.

Its worthwhile buying anything from anywhere if the costs are right do your research on price first.

cheers
Rinso

[bimbo]

i have just bought my first centrefire after owning and shooting a .22lr and o/u shotty for a few years. i couldn't get the rifle i wanted (savage 12fvss) but filled the permit with a stevens 200 in .223rem. i bought this rifle because it was cheap, good reputation for accuracy and it has a barrel with 1 in 9 twist which means i should be able to shoot projectiles up to about 70gr. I picked up the rifle with a nikkon 3-9 scope for $565 as a members special which i thought was darn good.

I was told by many people to buy a gun for what i am shooting now not what i might be shooting later and not to go too big too fast or you will end up with a flinch. for me the .223 seemed like a good choice as it is a good varmint round and with well placed shots will take down pigs and goats as well as being available pretty much anywhere.

i would say that if there is chance of shooting bigger stuff than foxes rule out the 204 as i see it as a pure varmint round. if i was you i would be looking at either 223, 22-250 or 243

[lamanna]

Thanks for the help guys.

In regards to the calibre choice, its seems pretty unanimous that I should get something medium to low. I was reading a few varminting forums and the main discussion is between .223, .204 and .22-250. When they started talking about ranges 400+, the .243 and .25-06 came into play. I know those long shots would be unlikely but I'd still like to have a calibre with the legs. I think 6.5-7mm is pushing it for mid range varminting in my opinion. So what exactly is mid-ranged calibres? From .22-250 there's the .243 and .25-06 that I've heard of. What are the popular 6mm calibres? I think if I get one of those midrange calibres I might not buy a lower one.

Anyway, something interesting I've been reading about the .204. It seems as though there isn't anything bad to say about the performane of this calibre. The only negative comments this calibre attracts is the "it'll be dead in 10 years". 10 years though is long enough for me. Alot of people push the .223 for cheap ammo, especially if you don't reload. But I plan to so I guess that's not something I should be worried about. Also, in regards to distance. There was a big discussion on the .204 vs. .223 and .22-250 and the distances they can shoot. They said the .204 can reach 400-500 without much drop comapred to the other cals. I did see a video of a 469y shot from a .204, I can only take the guys's word for it though. Has anyone reached these distances with a .204 and it not be much of an inconvenience? As in, can you hit a rabbit or a fox reguarly without much trouble at 400-500? Some people say you can do it with a .223 but it needs heaps of adjustment. Some guy said he zeroed his .204 at 300 then used a BDC to aim at 450 yards.

I'm might go down to O'Reilly's on Friday to check out some rifles. They had a Tikka t2 lite ss for $875 I think it was, that wouldn't be too bad, but I think I prefer the Remington SPS(Viccityarms has it for $745) from the looks of things. I'll pick up as many as I can. The 204 ruger website lists all the rifles that come in 204, I'm going to try over the next week to see as many as I can. Just out of curiosity, which rifle in .204 do you guys own?

One other thing about the .204. I'd be interested to know if you didn't own a calibre under say .243, would you get a .204 or go for something else?

trevort, that RCBS set is a great deal if I can get it locally. I'll have to get around to ordering that as soon as I choose my calibre.

[Tez]

Thanks for the help guys.

In regards to the calibre choice, its seems pretty unanimous that I should get something medium to low. I was reading a few varminting forums and the main discussion is between .223, .204 and .22-250. When they started talking about ranges 400+, the .243 and .25-06 came into play. I know those long shots would be unlikely but I'd still like to have a calibre with the legs. I think 6.5-7mm is pushing it for mid range varminting in my opinion. So what exactly is mid-ranged calibres? From .22-250 there's the .243 and .25-06 that I've heard of. What are the popular 6mm calibres? I think if I get one of those midrange calibres I might not buy a lower one.

Okay-then you better check-out the 240 Weatherby & 257 Weatherby if you want legs

[Crazyleff]

I have just bought a Remington 700 VSSF II in 204 and although I havn't had a chance to field test it, I choose this round because most of my shooting is like the shooting you are looking at , mostly rabbits ,foxes and the odd cat. I have a .243 and have used it for a number of years and it is a good calibre (wont get into the debate) but found that it was often overkill ( this is often a good thing especially for the effects) for although I like to get out and shoot the bigger game when I get a chance , it just doesent' happen as often as I would like. I shoot 223 in F TR class and I am able to shoot out to 1000 yards so the 223 is more then capable of the distance but it is not as a flat shooter as the .204. I'd go with what the other blokes are saying and look at either .204, 223 or 22.250. Either way as long as your having fun.

[dave]

Get a .223 in a rem 700 action, everything for that calibre is widely accepted and avaliable, not to mention cheap! Then you have the action for a custom job and or sell it as people are always on the look out for rem actions!

Then with the short action you can go from something small like .22br all the way out to one of the bigger WSM if you like, not to mention all the 6mils you can mention in between.

Hey tez is there many .240 weatherbys getting around these days i ws reading up about them last night, soooo want one!!!

[Ned Kelly]

G'Day All,
if you want a repeater, try to get a factory Rem with the correct magazine ie if you want for example a 22BR get a 22-250 to start with, that way the bolt face is the correct size and the magazine should cope, so a .22-250 can accomodate a 22BR, 6Br, .243, .308 etc, while a .223 will set you up for a .204, .222, .223, 17MachIV, 221 Fireball etc. all on the same action just by switching barrels. A magazine for a .223 will have difficulty stacking a case base on the .308 head size, without modification to the magazine.

All of this means you try to keep it simple to reduce costs when building a custom rifle

Also if you are interested in varminting beyond say 3-400m, look at a 6mm or bigger as the ballistics are better for wind drift at longer ranges. Try and match the cartridge to the tasks you want to do.

hope this helps

Cheerio Ned

[Ackley Improved]

I'm with Rinso on this one!!!! Buy a XR100!!!

Get it in 22-250, sell the barrel unfired to get some cash back and then barrel it into a 6mmBR!!

The stock is also nice to hold, but hold one for yourself first!

Set it up to shoot the 75-87 grain projectile range, and knock those critters down, even out far!!!

The accuracy of this little case is crazy with very little work!

Dont buy anything you are unhappy with.. Buy once and only once. A remington action is a great way to go!!

For a field rifle I only have a 308!! The rest of my guns are competition rifles.

I have gaps to fill as well, and my plans are a 20VT based off a rem XR100 and custom built 338 Lapua magnum.

For myself, a 20VT, 308 and 338 Lapua Magnum covers most of the situations I will encounter.

20VT for out to 250m varminting, 308 out to 500-600 then the 338LM as far as it can shoot (as far as I can shoot)!!!

My type of shooting will differ to yours however, and these calibers suit me!!

Also, there are better calibers at 1000yd than a 308!! Like a 338 Lapua Magnum!!

Cheers
AI

[lamanna]

Well initially I set out to buy a nice wood/blue rifle, then a thumbhole laminated with s/s barrel, then a synthetic with black barrel. Seeing as though I haven't seen many thumbhole stocks it'll probably be best if I bought the xr100. If anything though, this low calibre would be the one I carry the most, I had planned on getting something really light... the higher in calibres I go, then heavier/more benchrest oriented they are. All these rifles I'm getting for now and just foreplay. The thing I'm aiming for is something like a .308 or .338lapua(so the sniper guys tell me ) that I can shoot out to 1000y. I didn't want to buy one of these first up because as a novice I'll make bad decisions.

[Rinso]

Mate,

308 was the cartridge for 1000yd a long time ago, a lot better options around now from 6.5 -284 to AI's 338 and many in between.
308 is a reliable hunting calibre that will get you out of most situations but you dont see many on the line these days.
If you like the XR100 then I would say you cant go too far wrong with the 22-250 and either look at switch barrels or as AI said straight 6mmBR/Dasher. The 6mm will serve well as a target cartridge and is very effective over 300m but runs second to the 6PPC at 100/200.
The 22BR, 6BR and 30BR make an interesting line up that covers most hunting and target situations to some degree.
Its all good anyway...
Next thing get a good gunsmith (doesnt have to be the closest better that they are good) and take the advice they offer.

cheers
Rinso
Rinso