DSD wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:58 pm
I posted a pick on here once with some loaded rounds with less than 3 though neck tension once, do not know where it is now.
The end result was that when i drove down a dirt rd for a couple of hours most the projectiles fell into the cases and rested on the powder.
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Hi,
I'll definitely be travelling on some rough roads. Not looking for trouble so I think I'll stick with the 3 thou.
Thanks
Ashley
I was loading ammo anyway so took another pic
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Hi DSD I think the neck tension was only part of the problem. The second is obviously not enough powder in the case.
A mates 7mm magnum did that once when he forgot to change the bushing but they only dropped a mm or so because of the full case. A quick end to his huntung trip.
cheers
MISSED wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:37 pm
You need to talk to Branxhunter Ashley the speed and accuracy he is getting out of his 20/222 is amazing and is right up there with the 20 Prac.
And yes turning twice makes the process so much easier as the necks can crush back into the shoulder when you go to use the 17 cal expander.
I have used new Lapua brass for forming 17 Mach 1V as well as the 20 Vartarg with out a problem.
Federal on the other hand .
I believe Kickinback and Chappo had problems with using new ADI brass.
Cool.
I think my last doubts have gone. I'll stick with what I originally wanted and go with the 20-222
I've already got the box of Lapua sitting there so I'd better get started on it.
Thanks
Ashley
I’ve ended a nights shooting when a slightly too long round has left the pill in the lands when unloaded but never had a pill move because of anything else and they bounce around in my pocket . If you don’t anneal the brass stiffens and doesn’t grip so you would need more tension
DSD wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:58 pm
I posted a pick on here once with some loaded rounds with less than 3 though neck tension once, do not know where it is now.
The end result was that when i drove down a dirt rd for a couple of hours most the projectiles fell into the cases and rested on the powder.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Hi,
I'll definitely be travelling on some rough roads. Not looking for trouble so I think I'll stick with the 3 thou.
Thanks
Ashley
I was loading ammo anyway so took another pic
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Hi DSD I think the neck tension was only part of the problem. The second is obviously not enough powder in the case.
A mates 7mm magnum did that once when he forgot to change the bushing but they only dropped a mm or so because of the full case. A quick end to his huntung trip.
cheers
According to the adi manual I am a full gr over max.
Fixed it when i loaded my fireball though
Camel wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:50 pm
I'll jump in with some advice on the 20/222, its bloody awesome, but then I spose that can be said for all the smaller 20 cal offerings.
My chamber has a 234 neck, using Lap 222 rem brass I use a 230 bush, loaded rounds are around 232, gives them plenty of grip and minimizes working brass, I have shot my original 200 brass around a dozen times each, well, those I haven't lost that is, have not had to touch the body ever. No neck turning either, so it was very simple to do. My barrel is a Pacnor 1-11, Super Match grade and is probably the smoothest barrel internally I have had. It was chambered and threaded for me by Pacnor during a group buy organized on here several years ago.
Oh, and I had better say G'day, and welcome
G'day,
I was hoping you would comment on the 20-222 as I knew that you had one.
its bloody awesome
You don't get much better recommendation than that!!
That's the exact barrel that I have. Mine is a #5 profile. And I will be using Lapua brass, so sounds like they will be twins. Mine will be going on a Tikka M55. What projectiles do you use? I'm hoping to use the 39gr Sierra Blitzkings. I use the 50gr version in my 22-250 and am very happy with them. I am looking forward to getting it going as it has been dragging out for a while now.
Thanks for your thoughts and I may have to pick your brain again before its finished.
Thanks
Ashley
G'day Ashley, no problems mate, happy to help where I can. I started using 32gn Nosler BTs, but then switched to 32gn Zmax, unfortunately they are no long made, I tried 39gn Sierras, they shot very well, the same as the others, just an inch lower on target, the Zmax got the nod mainly because of price, but also because they performed so well on foxes and cats, and crows, and pigs, a few goats, but shot placement has to be pretty spot on which isn't hard under a spotlight. I use 2207, but BM1 is also a powder that could be used, a couple of others are using it, with good speed and accuracy. Lap brass and Rem 7 1/2 primers.
I use BM1 with Rem 7 1/2 primers and 32gn z-max in prepped Rem cases in my .20-222. The load I have settled on (24.1gn) is wound back a little from what has been tested through my rifle, but still runs at or just over 4000fps. Initial load development used CCI small rifle primers but I was getting flat primers very early, the switch to Rem primers saw this disappear. I found it has been a very forgiving chambering to load for, and seems to shoot accurately over a range of powder charge weights.
What reloading dies and gear do you currently have? To neck down my brass to .20cal I ran the cases through my Super simplex neck die with the expander ball removed, then through the Redding S-type die with the right sized bush. My .20 cal brass is not necked turned.
I also have a .17-222 that uses Lapua .222 brass - I bought the barrel and cases from Camel. They are all necked down, and half had been necked turned. I think he might have used his .20 cal and a couple of different .17 cal bushes.
As someone that deals with interference fit with gears, bushes and shafts every day, a failure is ALWAYS traced back to poor measurement. If a Steyr SSG works on an interference fit between barrel and receiver of 0.04 mm, around one and a half thou, running 65K PSI, and doesn't send the barrel down range, why does a bullet need three thou interference fit? Someone please explain this to me as my decades of engineering experience fails to come up with an answer.
The one concession i will grant with brass is age and annealed condition causing variable spring back, an area experienced handloaders should have dealt with over time.
If you drove down the road and bullets fell into the neck and rested on powder, you simply fucked up. End of story and please don't spread this crap to new shooters.
Branxhunter wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:52 am
G'day Ash.
I use BM1 with Rem 7 1/2 primers and 32gn z-max in prepped Rem cases in my .20-222. The load I have settled on (24.1gn) is wound back a little from what has been tested through my rifle, but still runs at or just over 4000fps. Initial load development used CCI small rifle primers but I was getting flat primers very early, the switch to Rem primers saw this disappear. I found it has been a very forgiving chambering to load for, and seems to shoot accurately over a range of powder charge weights.
What reloading dies and gear do you currently have? To neck down my brass to .20cal I ran the cases through my Super simplex neck die with the expander ball removed, then through the Redding S-type die with the right sized bush. My .20 cal brass is not necked turned.
I also have a .17-222 that uses Lapua .222 brass - I bought the barrel and cases from Camel. They are all necked down, and half had been necked turned. I think he might have used his .20 cal and a couple of different .17 cal bushes.
Marcus
G'day Marcus,
That's fantastic information, Thank-you. Great groups, I'll be happy if I can get even close to your results. I have a basic loading set-up, RCBS press and a Chargemaster dispenser. I have a Type S 222 die that I plan to use for this. No 20 or 17 bushings yet as I'm still trying to get my head around how much neck tension is required.
I guess I'll figure it out as I go along and find out what works for me. I will measure some other rounds when I get home and see what sort of tension I'm currently working with.
I've been following your 17-222 story. Very impressive.
Thanks
Ashley
Tony Z wrote:
If you drove down the road and bullets fell into the neck and rested on powder, you simply fucked up. End of story and please don't spread this crap to new shooters.
No shit sherlock, i fucked up the neck tension.
Same brass, same anneal,more tension no falling projectiles rocket science!
Tony Z wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:59 pm
As someone that deals with interference fit with gears, bushes and shafts every day, a failure is ALWAYS traced back to poor measurement. If a Steyr SSG works on an interference fit between barrel and receiver of 0.04 mm, around one and a half thou, running 65K PSI, and doesn't send the barrel down range, why does a bullet need three thou interference fit? Someone please explain this to me as my decades of engineering experience fails to come up with an answer.
The one concession i will grant with brass is age and annealed condition causing variable spring back, an area experienced handloaders should have dealt with over time.
If you drove down the road and bullets fell into the neck and rested on powder, you simply fucked up. End of story and please don't spread this crap to new shooters.
So how much neck tension do standard NON bushing dies give the neck on a case?
The majority of reloaders don't use bushing dies, so are they putting way to much neck tension with standard dies?
Tony Z wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:59 pm
As someone that deals with interference fit with gears, bushes and shafts every day, a failure is ALWAYS traced back to poor measurement. If a Steyr SSG works on an interference fit between barrel and receiver of 0.04 mm, around one and a half thou, running 65K PSI, and doesn't send the barrel down range, why does a bullet need three thou interference fit? Someone please explain this to me as my decades of engineering experience fails to come up with an answer.
The one concession i will grant with brass is age and annealed condition causing variable spring back, an area experienced handloaders should have dealt with over time.
If you drove down the road and bullets fell into the neck and rested on powder, you simply fucked up. End of story and please don't spread this crap to new shooters.
So how much neck tension do standard NON bushing dies give the neck on a case?
The majority of reloaders don't use bushing dies, so are they putting way to much neck tension with standard dies?
Glenn
That’s why we use bushing dies, to control neck tension derr
Tony Z wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:59 pm
As someone that deals with interference fit with gears, bushes and shafts every day, a failure is ALWAYS traced back to poor measurement. If a Steyr SSG works on an interference fit between barrel and receiver of 0.04 mm, around one and a half thou, running 65K PSI, and doesn't send the barrel down range, why does a bullet need three thou interference fit? Someone please explain this to me as my decades of engineering experience fails to come up with an answer.
The one concession i will grant with brass is age and annealed condition causing variable spring back, an area experienced handloaders should have dealt with over time.
If you drove down the road and bullets fell into the neck and rested on powder, you simply fucked up. End of story and please don't spread this crap to new shooters.
So how much neck tension do standard NON bushing dies give the neck on a case?
The majority of reloaders don't use bushing dies, so are they putting way to much neck tension with standard dies?
Glenn
That’s why we use bushing dies, to control neck tension derr
Glenn I believe they are working their brass more than they need and that’s why we use bushing dies. Well if me of the reasons. Should I use smaller words?
.
