Hello (and Neck Bushings)

[Gatekeeper25]

Hi all,


I've been hiding in the background on here for a while but I finally have an excuse to join in, so here goes.

Firstly, as a way of introduction :

I have been shooting for about 40 years and reloading for about 30. I shot 50m Smallbore for many years but not for a long time now. I'd like to try some type of longer range target shooting at some point but time is a little scarce at the moment. These days I chase foxes and pigs mainly and have a dream of finally getting my first deer, but no luck with that so far. I would say that I know a little bit about a lot of things but am an expert in nothing so always ready to listen to those that know more than me. Which leads me to my questions….

I would like some advice on selecting the correct neck bushing size.

I have a couple of projects on the go and I am ready to start preparing cases however I have never had to turn necks before so this is all a bit of a mystery to me.

From what I have read I have come up with the following:

For the .17 (17 Predator, formed from 223)

0.197 chamber less 0.003 = 0.194 loaded (turned) size. Less 0.003 for neck tension = 0.191 bushing size

For the .20 (most likely a 20-222 but still considering options.)

0.232 chamber less 0.003 = 0.229 loaded (turned) size. Less 0.003 for neck tension = 0.226 bushing size

Does this sound about right?

The chamber sizes are taken from the reamer print and not from any real world measurement.

I'm guessing that I may not have to turn the .20s ?

How many steps should I take for the 17? Was hoping to just use the 20 bushing as an (almost) halfway point.

I have the Redding Type S neck bushing die body already, just need a bushing to go in it.

As for the 20-222, I'm about 90% sold on it but I have had someone in my ear about going to a 20 Practical. Personally, I feel that if I were to go away from the 20-222 it would be to go down a step to the 20 Vartarg. I know there are pros and cons of each but as I already have a 22-250, I'm looking more towards something with a little more 'finesse' rather than 'shock and awe'. I'm a long time 222 fan so the 20-222 just seems like a natural step. I'm planning to use this as regular spotlighting setup and just wanted something a little bit flatter shooting than the .222

I already have the barrel (1:11") and want to get the reamer ordered so any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated as I know there are a number of people here who are 20 Calibre fans. I already have the reamer for the Predator and that one should be going together in the next couple of weeks.

Hopefully that’s not too many questions all pushed together.


I also tend to talk too much, I'll try to keep it shorter in the future.


Regards

Ashley.

[Camel]

I'll jump in with some advice on the 20/222, its bloody awesome, but then I spose that can be said for all the smaller 20 cal offerings.

My chamber has a 234 neck, using Lap 222 rem brass I use a 230 bush, loaded rounds are around 232, gives them plenty of grip and minimizes working brass, I have shot my original 200 brass around a dozen times each, well, those I haven't lost that is, have not had to touch the body ever. No neck turning either, so it was very simple to do. My barrel is a Pacnor 1-11, Super Match grade and is probably the smoothest barrel internally I have had. It was chambered and threaded for me by Pacnor during a group buy organized on here several years ago.

Oh, and I had better say G'day, and welcome

[trevort]

Gday and welcome. Your maths is right but why so much neck tension on those little rounds. I aim for just over 1 thou seems ok


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[trevort]

The 20 cal bushing may work but squeezing the case into the fl die should work better.

I don’t know the 17 you are making but when you size down and thicken your brass necks it can be hard to pull the expander ball back thru so take that out of the die before you size.

If you are going to turn necks you need an expander mandrel/die so use that ripen the neck up rather than the expander ball in the fl die.

Do not anneal before you neck down or caseneck/shoulders will be squashed in the FL die. Ask me how I know.
but I would anneal the necked down case before running the expander mandrel in before turning


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[MISSED]

Hi your maths is spot on but as Trevort said why so much neck tension I run 2 thou.

Also I would neck turn at 22 and again at 17.

So neck turn at 22 anneal at 20 neck turn at 17 anneal again.

But you should not need to Neckturn for the 17/223 as you are only working the neck down

[Glenn]

I run 3 thou neck tension!

I have a 17 Fireball, I tried less but ended up with projectiles inside the cases.
If a case did not feed perfectly and hung up it would push the projectile in the case.
I fixed the feeding issue, mostly but will NEVER use less than 3 thou again.

All my spotlighting guns are single shot now!

1 thou is fine for a Benchrest gun but not for the field.

The neck tension amount is up to the individual depending on the use but more important is that it is consistent!

Glenn

[DSD]

I posted a pick on here once with some loaded rounds with less than 3 though neck tension once, do not know where it is now.
The end result was that when i drove down a dirt rd for a couple of hours most the projectiles fell into the cases and rested on the powder.

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[Gatekeeper25]

The 20 cal bushing may work but squeezing the case into the fl die should work better.

I don’t know the 17 you are making but when you size down and thicken your brass necks it can be hard to pull the expander ball back thru so take that out of the die before you size.

If you are going to turn necks you need an expander mandrel/die so use that ripen the neck up rather than the expander ball in the fl die.

Do not anneal before you neck down or caseneck/shoulders will be squashed in the FL die. Ask me how I know.
but I would anneal the necked down case before running the expander mandrel in before turning


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G'day Trevor, thanks for the advice.

The only reason I was using 3 thou neck tension is because that is what I read somewhere online. Maybe that was for a larger round, not sure now.

Why does a FL die work better? If I use a 17 Rem FL die for the initial neck reduction and then an appropriate bushing for subsequent reloading I should be ok? I am planing on eventually getting a FL die made but thought I'd wait and see if I like it first. The Predator is basically a 223 necked to 17 and improved with a 30 deg shoulder.

I have expander mandrels in 17 and 20 so will use them as you suggest.

I was planing on using new Lapua brass. Would this be too soft as it has already been annealed? I can use some that has been fired a couple of times if you think it would be better. Definitely planing on annealing afterwards.

Thanks again.
Ashley

[Gatekeeper25]

Hi your maths is spot on but as Trevort said why so much neck tension I run 2 thou.

Also I would neck turn at 22 and again at 17.

So neck turn at 22 anneal at 20 neck turn at 17 anneal again.

But you should not need to Neckturn for the 17/223 as you are only working the neck down

Hi,
Is the 2 step turning just to remove some initial material to make the resizing easier?
Thanks.
Ashley

[Gatekeeper25]

I run 3 thou neck tension!

I have a 17 Fireball, I tried less but ended up with projectiles inside the cases.
If a case did not feed perfectly and hung up it would push the projectile in the case.
I fixed the feeding issue, mostly but will NEVER use less than 3 thou again.

All my spotlighting guns are single shot now!

1 thou is fine for a Benchrest gun but not for the field.

The neck tension amount is up to the individual depending on the use but more important is that it is consistent!

Glenn

Hi,
Assuming that the tension is consistent, what's the advantage of having it lower. I guess it would affect the pressure?
Thanks
Ashley

[Gatekeeper25]

I posted a pick on here once with some loaded rounds with less than 3 though neck tension once, do not know where it is now.
The end result was that when i drove down a dirt rd for a couple of hours most the projectiles fell into the cases and rested on the powder.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Hi,
I'll definitely be travelling on some rough roads. Not looking for trouble so I think I'll stick with the 3 thou.
Thanks
Ashley

[Gatekeeper25]

I'll jump in with some advice on the 20/222, its bloody awesome, but then I spose that can be said for all the smaller 20 cal offerings.

My chamber has a 234 neck, using Lap 222 rem brass I use a 230 bush, loaded rounds are around 232, gives them plenty of grip and minimizes working brass, I have shot my original 200 brass around a dozen times each, well, those I haven't lost that is, have not had to touch the body ever. No neck turning either, so it was very simple to do. My barrel is a Pacnor 1-11, Super Match grade and is probably the smoothest barrel internally I have had. It was chambered and threaded for me by Pacnor during a group buy organized on here several years ago.

Oh, and I had better say G'day, and welcome

G'day,

I was hoping you would comment on the 20-222 as I knew that you had one.

its bloody awesome

You don't get much better recommendation than that!!

That's the exact barrel that I have. Mine is a #5 profile. And I will be using Lapua brass, so sounds like they will be twins. Mine will be going on a Tikka M55. What projectiles do you use? I'm hoping to use the 39gr Sierra Blitzkings. I use the 50gr version in my 22-250 and am very happy with them. I am looking forward to getting it going as it has been dragging out for a while now.

Thanks for your thoughts and I may have to pick your brain again before its finished.
Thanks
Ashley

[DSD]

I posted a pick on here once with some loaded rounds with less than 3 though neck tension once, do not know where it is now.
The end result was that when i drove down a dirt rd for a couple of hours most the projectiles fell into the cases and rested on the powder.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Hi,
I'll definitely be travelling on some rough roads. Not looking for trouble so I think I'll stick with the 3 thou.
Thanks
Ashley

I was loading ammo anyway so took another pic


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[Gatekeeper25]

I posted a pick on here once with some loaded rounds with less than 3 though neck tension once, do not know where it is now.
The end result was that when i drove down a dirt rd for a couple of hours most the projectiles fell into the cases and rested on the powder.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Hi,
I'll definitely be travelling on some rough roads. Not looking for trouble so I think I'll stick with the 3 thou.
Thanks
Ashley

I was loading ammo anyway so took another pic


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well, that sucks.

[MISSED]

I'll jump in with some advice on the 20/222, its bloody awesome, but then I spose that can be said for all the smaller 20 cal offerings.

My chamber has a 234 neck, using Lap 222 rem brass I use a 230 bush, loaded rounds are around 232, gives them plenty of grip and minimizes working brass, I have shot my original 200 brass around a dozen times each, well, those I haven't lost that is, have not had to touch the body ever. No neck turning either, so it was very simple to do. My barrel is a Pacnor 1-11, Super Match grade and is probably the smoothest barrel internally I have had. It was chambered and threaded for me by Pacnor during a group buy organized on here several years ago.

Oh, and I had better say G'day, and welcome

G'day,

I was hoping you would comment on the 20-222 as I knew that you had one.

its bloody awesome

You don't get much better recommendation than that!!

That's the exact barrel that I have. Mine is a #5 profile. And I will be using Lapua brass, so sounds like they will be twins. Mine will be going on a Tikka M55. What projectiles do you use? I'm hoping to use the 39gr Sierra Blitzkings. I use the 50gr version in my 22-250 and am very happy with them. I am looking forward to getting it going as it has been dragging out for a while now.

Thanks for your thoughts and I may have to pick your brain again before its finished.
Thanks
Ashley

You need to talk to Branxhunter Ashley the speed and accuracy he is getting out of his 20/222 is amazing and is right up there with the 20 Prac.

And yes turning twice makes the process so much easier as the necks can crush back into the shoulder when you go to use the 17 cal expander.

I have used new Lapua brass for forming 17 Mach 1V as well as the 20 Vartarg with out a problem.

Federal on the other hand .

I believe Kickinback and Chappo had problems with using new ADI brass.