scope for custom 204

[matang]

Was originally I was going for a Nightforce NF 3-15x56 than made my mind up for the vxl leopold and through it out to you guys to get some feed back. Until now all I have talked think the vxl are a great scope.

[Ned Kelly]

G'Day matang,
there's always heaps of opinions! But I'm sure most have expressed their opinions based on experience. The scopes either work or they dont.

To me $ are important, but most of all is the point of impact changes when zooming up or down must not be noticeable. I know from my BR experience my NF8-32BR is spot on as well as the two 6.5-20 leupy's I've owned (i've got the EFR one now). Trust in the scopes repeatablity is essential for precision work.

Failing that get a good fixed power like a 12x and you'll be just as happy. My brother uses a 12x leupy (which I owned for sporter BR class) on his .223 and he's dynamite in the field with his rig.

I've had a few leupy's and they've been good to me, so has B&L, NF, weaver.....
Just buy the best quality optics you can afford!

hope this helps

Cheerio Ned

[Nick S]

Sounds like I might have been the one who turned you off them, so I dug up the mag to back up my statement.
The article appeared in Guns & Game issue #50 April-June 2006 p. 98 authored by Andy Montgomery who is very capable and thorugh (my favourite scope reveiwer).
If you don't have it, i'll summarise; VX-L 3.5-10x50 shot centred at 10x, half inch right and low at 6x and half inch left and low at 3.5x at 100 yards! Not good enough IMO.
Now Andy shot a .216" 5 shot group at 3.5x on the same target, so he's no goose . The round the target test was perfect, but what does that matter in light of the above?
Hope this helps
Nick S
P.S. Rinso's not wrong about the Schmidt&Bender

[bushchook]

VXL look like crap I reckon and I seriously wonder how long this fad will last . An A3 will have a sufficiently high comb for a 50mm objective if you choose the right mounts . If you're like me and regularly trade scopes you will be better off with a round objective as I think you have a bigger potential market and therefore higher resale .
I have had 6.5 - 20 x 40 and 50 Leupolds . The 50 is definitely better at night on the higher powers . Target turrets have not been a problem .

[Ned Kelly]

G'Day again,
these days you've got to have a highly attuned BS filter to sort out the facts from marketing hype! No matter what you intend to buy from a car to a house or even a humble scope!

Cheerio Ned

PS target turrets are worth it, even just for the elevation for long shots, once they are zero'd for your normal zero distance, you just dial in the elevation needed and hold off for the wind. Then when finished dial it back to your normal zero distance. Marvelous! Makes those long shots on warrens that little bit easier!

[trevort]

heartily agree they are very ugly.

And with only very little experience with target turrets, agree totally with Ned too

[jt]

Matang, have a look at a Zeiss Conquest 6.2 - 20 X 50. I sourced mine from the US and it was cheaper than a 6.5 - 20 X 40 Luepold. It was on a special though, but worth waiting for. Very clear and repeateble.
jt.

[zzsstt]

PS target turrets are worth it, even just for the elevation for long shots, once they are zero'd for your normal zero distance, you just dial in the elevation needed and hold off for the wind. Then when finished dial it back to your normal zero distance. Marvelous! Makes those long shots on warrens that little bit easier!

I've never used target turrets, so please correct me if I'm wrong. From what I can see in the photo's, the target turrets appear to have covers on them, the same as normal (short? hunting?) turrets. When the covers are removed, they would seem to have the same finger adjustable 1/4minute audible clicks as the normal turrets, with the same resettable dials to mark your zero (Leupolds III's do, not sure about Vortex because they don't mention it on their web site).

Apart from the additional height, there doesn't seem to be any difference between target and normal turrets. So given the increased likelihood of the taller turret getting bashed or caught on something, I am still struggling to see an advantage, or in fact anything but a disadvantage, to them.

Can someone explain - I've never used them remember, this is a genuine question - why, in situations other than pure benchrest shooting, tall turrets are anything but a disadvantage?

[trevort]

I have never used them in the field either but do have 2 scopes on a field rifles equipped with them.

I only realised how useful they were when I went to a comp. When moving from 500m to 1000yd it was simply "thats 120 clicks"

I have never moved scope elevation in the field as i always want a constant reference point, like an inch high at 100m.

The target turrets do not need to come off, they click as they are. But once you have your zero point, you loosen them and then return them to the "0" setting without actually adjusting your elevation (or windage)

Now you have a constant zero point. If you are staking out a warren 300m away you might know your rifle needs say 3 clicks to hold dead on, when your finished you return to "0" on the indicator and you are back to the original 1 inch high at a 100. Thats when it pays to buy quality as you want to be able to trust that the return to '0" is repeatable.

hope this helps

[zzsstt]

Trev,

Isn't that all the same for normal turrets, except that you have to take the cap off?

On the Nightforce website I can see the turrets have markings on them, but on the Leupold and Vortex websites I can't see any markings. If the entire turret rotates, and has no markings on it, how do you know it hasn't got knocked in transit? Can the turrets be locked? If the entire turret turns, are they still as waterproof and dust proof as a normal turret that has an o-ring seal in the cap?

Sorry for the flurry of questions, sometimes it's a bugger not being able to see something "in the flesh"! Can anyone post some photos of one of these Leupold or Vortex target turrets in close-up, so I can see how they work.......

[Knackers]

G'day Zzsstt, I have a Leupold 6-18x40 with target turrets, yes they have a long cap that protects the dial inside. After you take the caps off you can see the writing on the turrts from the firing postion.
I also have a cheap copy of a NF and it has target turrets that are constantly exposed (with markings on them) again to be viewed from the bench postion. Dont know how well it would stand up to the rigors of weather, but I am always worried that it will be off zero when I go to a shot.
I would suspect that the $$$$ models would be well sealed from the elements.

[Ned Kelly]

G'Day zzsstt,
here are some photos,
the covers are the same deal as all turret covers, to keep the weather and dust out. The beauty of the target turrets is the adjustablity and more adjustment range.

Once zeroed you can quickly adjust elevation or windage to suit the distance/wind to target (or varmint) the first 4 photos are from a NF BR scope and the last 2 are from a B&L 4200 36x BR scope. The Leupold target turrets are nearly identical to the NF system with 3 grub screws


You can see 1 of 3 grub screws on the turret just above the # 2 on the dial used to lock the turret at the zero mark


Undoing a grub screw on the right, another is visible to the left


Brass spindle has very fine splines or teeth on the parallel section. The waist section is where the grub screws tighten onto the spindle


turret cap, allen key and dust cover from NF BR scope


A single screw locks turret cover to spindle on a B&L


Turret cover and locking screw, dust cover is not in view but similar to NF one

Hope this helps clarify the subject

Cheerio Ned

[Rinso]

matang,

On a value for money and quality basis the Vortex Viper in 6.5-20x50 is the clear winner IMHO.

My opinion is based on experience I have used Vortex scopes as well as Leupold (I own 2 @ VXIII 6.5-20 's and 2 @ 36x40), Nightforce (12-42x56 and 5.5-22x56) Weaver (4 @ 36x40 and 24x40) I have owned Smidt & Bender, Swarovski, Zeiss, Bushnell etc etc.

The fact is either spend $3500 on a Smidt & Bender or $2000 on a Nightforce .. if that is too much then the Vortex will match the Leupolds for less money.

cheers
Rinso

[zzsstt]

Knackers and Ned,

Thanks! That explains all I need to know. Obviously Leupold (and Vortex?) take all their photo's with the caps on, whilst Nightforce take'em with the caps off!

I guess there's still an extra chance of damage to the higher turret, but security of both zero and water/dirt ingress should be as good as the normal ones.

The target turret gives you more knob to hold on to, so to speak, and the extra height makes it easier to see the numbers from the shooting position.

I understand.........

[matang]

Thanks Rinso that makes a lot of sense, but in back of mind cant help thinking you have a vested interest in the Vortex line but Im starting to read good reports on them in the States. Will look into them other wise back to proven bushnell 3200 5-15x50 or a nightforce.
Rinso- Not trying to ofend you or be a smart arse appreciate your views.
VOTE 1 SHOOTERS PARTY