If you shoot factories...
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- .257 Roberts
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If you shoot factories...
f you shoot Factories either through necessity or by choice, have you ever wondered how to get the most accuracy out a box or two of ammo?
Im sure after you have purchased your new bang stick that you have tried different brands (talking about C/Fs ) and have discovered which brand it likes best, thats all well and good but there is another trick you can do with factory ammo that will help tighten those groups.
Assuming that everything is ok with the rifle (good bedding, free floated barrel , neat and sharp crown, screws correctly tensioned and trigger properly adjusted for a light crisp let off) and the scope and mounts are securely attached without the objective touching the barrel or the ocular getting bashed by the bolt handle...you might be wondering "why am I getting those bloody fliers that ruin a good group"? :unknown: , well it is probably the ammo.
And when I say ammo Im talking about bullet concentricity or RUNOUT.
I have found that after running every round through a concentricity guage (I normally buy 200rounds at a time) the difference in runout is enough to cause ammo inaccuracies.
I have struck rounds with as little a 0001thou to as much as 5thou all in the same batch, some rounds are so bad that when rolled across a flat surface you can see the bullet tip oscillate which would destroy accuracy and cause group destroying fliers not to mention long range misses on small targets and this is from premium ammo too.
The guage I use is a Hornady lock n load concentricity guage, it is excellent for sorting good rounds from bad and I also use it for testing handloads for the .260...so this is how I sort the ammo for my L/R Bunny popping.
When it comes to L/R pest popping I will group the ammo into 3 lots, from 0-1Thou I will use this for sighting in, group testing and for stretching the calibers capabilities.
From 1-2 thou I use this batch for standard L/R and from 2-3thou i use this batch for barrel fouling, ammo with greater runout than 3thou is normally rejected and used for paddy melon fodder.
Take the .223 for example , the 0-1 thou batch is used for shooting from 400-500yds and the 1-2 thoubatch from 200-400yds, for example I put 200 through today and out of 100 rounds 35 were 0-1, 40 1-2 and 25 2-3 plus a handful of rejects.
These days I do not have the time (or the willpower) to spend half the day in front of a loading press,( except for the .260 which costs around $90.00 for 20) I would rather spend that time out bush besides, the factory ammo after batching is very accurate and suits me for the ranges I shoot.
As Nick Harvey said.. Premium ammo is just as good or if in some cases better than some carefully prepared handloads , after batching I tend to agree with him.
Anyway I hope this helps tighten those groups
cheers ,
Sean.
Elmer
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 316
South Australia
Im sure after you have purchased your new bang stick that you have tried different brands (talking about C/Fs ) and have discovered which brand it likes best, thats all well and good but there is another trick you can do with factory ammo that will help tighten those groups.
Assuming that everything is ok with the rifle (good bedding, free floated barrel , neat and sharp crown, screws correctly tensioned and trigger properly adjusted for a light crisp let off) and the scope and mounts are securely attached without the objective touching the barrel or the ocular getting bashed by the bolt handle...you might be wondering "why am I getting those bloody fliers that ruin a good group"? :unknown: , well it is probably the ammo.
And when I say ammo Im talking about bullet concentricity or RUNOUT.
I have found that after running every round through a concentricity guage (I normally buy 200rounds at a time) the difference in runout is enough to cause ammo inaccuracies.
I have struck rounds with as little a 0001thou to as much as 5thou all in the same batch, some rounds are so bad that when rolled across a flat surface you can see the bullet tip oscillate which would destroy accuracy and cause group destroying fliers not to mention long range misses on small targets and this is from premium ammo too.
The guage I use is a Hornady lock n load concentricity guage, it is excellent for sorting good rounds from bad and I also use it for testing handloads for the .260...so this is how I sort the ammo for my L/R Bunny popping.
When it comes to L/R pest popping I will group the ammo into 3 lots, from 0-1Thou I will use this for sighting in, group testing and for stretching the calibers capabilities.
From 1-2 thou I use this batch for standard L/R and from 2-3thou i use this batch for barrel fouling, ammo with greater runout than 3thou is normally rejected and used for paddy melon fodder.
Take the .223 for example , the 0-1 thou batch is used for shooting from 400-500yds and the 1-2 thoubatch from 200-400yds, for example I put 200 through today and out of 100 rounds 35 were 0-1, 40 1-2 and 25 2-3 plus a handful of rejects.
These days I do not have the time (or the willpower) to spend half the day in front of a loading press,( except for the .260 which costs around $90.00 for 20) I would rather spend that time out bush besides, the factory ammo after batching is very accurate and suits me for the ranges I shoot.
As Nick Harvey said.. Premium ammo is just as good or if in some cases better than some carefully prepared handloads , after batching I tend to agree with him.
Anyway I hope this helps tighten those groups
cheers ,
Sean.
Elmer
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 316
South Australia
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- New Member
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Re: If you shoot factories...
A lot of good advice there S.A will have to have a look when I go back to factory and check it out
- trevort
- Spud Gun
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Re: If you shoot factories...
Never seen a factory round at a benchrest match. What your doing is obviously getting you results but I think uncle nick might be talking about the newbie heroes on the Facebook pages
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- .257 Roberts
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Re: If you shoot factories...
No mate but he was actually talking about a mate of his who was getting mediocre results, Nick then advised him to buy a Hornady guage ...he then tested the runout, corrected it and surprise surprise his groups shrank...dunno what you mean by the Bench rest comment
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- .257 Roberts
- Posts: 781
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Re: If you shoot factories...
Glad you found it helpful, I reckon you will be surprised by the variation in runout...since using the guage the groups have definitely shrunk but the most pleasing thing about it is that it will reduce those pesky fliers considerably, which at 400plus yards could mean the difference between a hit or miss or worse still a wounded animal.
- frakka
- 22-250 Remington
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Re: If you shoot factories...
I read the guff on the Hornady website about the tool: "Just place ammunition in the tool, roll it, identify runout, and use the dial indicator to adjust runout to zero! It can be used to true-up factory ammunition, too.".
If you can use the device to adjust run-out to zero, wouldn't you do this rather than sort into batches ?
Note - I have no experience at all with this type of gauge.
Edit: I've been thinking about this, if the run-out is in the brass then how can you true up loaded factory ammo ?
If you can use the device to adjust run-out to zero, wouldn't you do this rather than sort into batches ?
Note - I have no experience at all with this type of gauge.
Edit: I've been thinking about this, if the run-out is in the brass then how can you true up loaded factory ammo ?
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- .257 Roberts
- Posts: 781
- Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:42 pm
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- Location: South Oz
Re: If you shoot factories...
I would but the the .223 and in particular the 22-250 bullet is seated deeply and requires a lot of force to get it straight which puts a pock mark on the bullet.frakka wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:27 am I read the guff on the Hornady website about the tool: "Just place ammunition in the tool, roll it, identify runout, and use the dial indicator to adjust runout to zero! It can be used to true-up factory ammunition, too.".
If you can use the device to adjust run-out to zero, wouldn't you do this rather than sort into batches ?
Note - I have no experience at all with this type of gauge.
Edit: I've been thinking about this, if the run-out is in the brass then how can you true up loaded factory ammo ?
Not only that, but attempting to straighten the bullet results in the neck being stretched (bent) this way and that resulting in uneven neck tension....been there done that.
How do you true up factory ammo? Its just like a bent nail, if its bent one way then you bend it the opposite way until its straight.
Believe me, since I have been batching (the past 4 yrs) all my rifles acccuracy levels have gone from very good to great...all those long distance Bunnies will back me on that one
- frakka
- 22-250 Remington
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Re: If you shoot factories...
Pretty much as I thought, the statement: "It can be used to true-up factory ammunition, too." sounded too good to be true (no pun).
- trevort
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Re: If you shoot factories...
Frakka use bushing neck dies and sleeved competition style seaters and you won't see oscillating tips when you roll your ammo on the table
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- .257 Roberts
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Re: If you shoot factories...
trevort wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:11 am Frakka use bushing neck dies and sleeved competition style seaters and you won't see oscillating tips when you roll your ammo on the table
Thats exactly what I use...but every now and then a round turns up with a little runout ...no harm in taking that little extra step to ensure ALL your rounds are true, is there Trev
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- trevort
- Spud Gun
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Re: If you shoot factories...
I read all about runout when I started loading and agreed with the conclusions that prevention was the best form of cure. I don't measure for it as I wouldn't no how to fix it if bushing dies and sleeved seaters aren't working!
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- frakka
- 22-250 Remington
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Re: If you shoot factories...
Thanks Trev, my rollies are straight and true and plenty accurate, just like the good people on here , a pleasure to soak up good advice though, you can never learn too much.
- Rabbitz
- .338 Lapua Magnum
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Re: If you shoot factories...
Hmmmm.
"If you shoot factories..."
You'd want to make sure no-one was inside the factory first...
(Sorry, but that thread subject has had me wanting to say that for ages)
"If you shoot factories..."
You'd want to make sure no-one was inside the factory first...
(Sorry, but that thread subject has had me wanting to say that for ages)
- trevort
- Spud Gun
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Re: If you shoot factories...
Rabbitz wrote:Hmmmm.
"If you shoot factories..."
You'd want to make sure no-one was inside the factory first...
(Sorry, but that thread subject has had me wanting to say that for ages)
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