17 grain in a 17 Hornet

[billsshed]

I was thinking of trying some spare 17 gn projectiles that I had made in the 17 Hornet, CZ 527. The 20gn FBOT that I build will shoot well under a inch. Jackets made from .22LR cases.
I approached ADI ref some data but they replied and said they had not tried a 17 gn .172" projectile.
So starting at the 20 gn load of 10.1gn of 2205 I loaded some 17 gn pills. The projectiles were made up to be .405" long which is close to the Hornady 17 gn with the tip removed. I expected a velocity increase from the start but this turned out not to be anything special.
All powder weights were weighed on lab grade scales to 0.01 gn. Projectiles were not crimped. Powder was 2205. Primer was a federal SR
10.1 was nothing to write home about with groups at about 1.5". The crono showed that deviation was well over 100f/s. No pressure signs.
10.2 showed less speed deviations but grouping was not special
10.3 showed better consistency with speed with a deviation of 60 f/s with a average velocity of 3500 F/s, grouping was better.
Stopped there and am considering stepping it up another notch.

Any thoughts? Make a longer projectile? Crimping? I do not have access to any faster powders nor am I going to get some. I do have room in the case and at 10.3 gn there is no pressure signs and it is not compressed. Is it worth it when the 20 gn works so well?

On a side note, all projectiles made it to the target with no keyholes.

Bill

[Camel]

G'day Bill, I reckon I would sneak a bit more powder in the case, small increases like you have been doing. I don't know much about crimping jacketed bullets in small calibres, I have only done that with large straight cases like 444 and 45/70.
Powder, I know you said you aren't getting any faster powder, but if you do go looking, some to check out would be Herc 2400, IMR 4227 and Win 296, they are all smaller grained powders than 2205 so you should be able to get a bit more into the case.
One forum that specialises in small calibres is Saubier.com, they are a pretty good bunch of fellas and a lot of them are doing lots of work with the 17Hornet and smaller calibres. Ill get a link and post it for you.


Here ya go

http://www.saubier.com/

[billsshed]

Stepped it up a bit today and upped the powder qty.
10.4 gn, 10.5 and 10.6gn of 2205.
Still not a compressed load and primers are only just started to flatten. No expansion of case head and groups are starting to look acceptable. 10.6 broke the 3700f/s mark. Again all projectiles made it to the target and no key holes. Not bad for a projectile made out of a scrap bit of brass.
I am going to make the jackets a lot longer to .530" to see what they will do. They will be closer to a factory 17gn VMax. I can not go to long as the jacket will crumple under the pressure of point forming.

Bill

[Camel]

Good info there Bill, keep it coming mate. Have found that a bit more speed can close up groups. Just watch for pressure spikes as small powder changes can cause significant jumps.

I bet Bimbo is watching this thread with interest You there James

[billsshed]

That's the truth. I have gone up 0.5 of a grain and now have the first sign of pressure.With small cases it does not take much to hit max pressure.
Will let you how it goes.
Bill

[barryb]

Don't know about Bimbo watching but I know a bloke whose watching this with serious interest. Good stuff Bill, I know you said you want to stick with ADI 2205 bit I've found 4227 somewhat superior to 2205 for the little 17's.

[billsshed]

Don't know about Bimbo watching but I know a bloke whose watching this with serious interest. Good stuff Bill, I know you said you want to stick with ADI 2205 bit I've found 4227 somewhat superior to 2205 for the little 17's.

The main reason I am sticking to 2205 is it is all I can really get reliably. I buy 4Kg at a time and it takes a long time to burn through it at 10 gn at a time. To hold lots of different powders just to try and then find I can not get it for 6 months or more can be frustrating. Reloading here in Tas is not a huge pastime and the cost of getting powders across bass straight seems to be very expensive. I do not know what the cost of powder is on the mainland but here it is about $60.00 / 500 . I may be wrong but According to my notes H4227 is the 2205 equivalent, if not the same powder made by ADI.
Thanks for the feed back
Bill

[bimbo]

I bet Bimbo is watching this thread with interest You there James

He most certainly is

[billsshed]

It will do me!
Had a tinker in the reloading room and made up some longer 17gn projectiles.
Made these out of "T" (Stirling) head stamp .22LR cases as these are about .0015" thicker in the wall than Winchester cases. Cut to .375" in length, Derimmed to .220" diameter, drawn down to .169" diameter, trimmed to .538" long and finished at .526" long and .1721" in diameter after point forming. I chose the Stirling "T" cases as the other brands are thinner and I didn"t want the nose to crumple under the pressure of point forming.
10.5 gn of 2205 lit by a Federal SR primer. Cases I used are nothing special and are my "hunting" cases as I do not care if I loose a few at night. They were .22 Hornet then .22 K Hornet and now 17 Hornet. They have done lots of reloads. They did have the full case prep when new and I do anneal when I see a cracked case.
These passed the crony at an average of 3654f/s, no great pressure signs and the primers are only just starting to flatten. Fired off a solid steel bench in near perfect conditions. CZ527 American.
I will build 500 or so and thin out our wallaby population( under permit). At that speed I have no doubt that they will be very effective.
Please note that the length of projectile in the picture is incorrect and should read .526" long!

Bill

[bimbo]

Nice work, this is taking reloading to the next level

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk

[Camel]

Very impressive all round Bill, that load certainly seems accurate enough for the intended job, which shot was the low right ? Cold barrel, or just one that goes out a bit ? You need a $2.00 coin for your future photographs.
Ever tried making your jackets out of 22mag or 17hmr brass, I imagine that it is a bit thicker in the head, so would make a heavier jacket ? Would give you a longer thicker heavier jacket. Alternatively some CCI stinger brass as it is a lot thicker than other brands, I think that is what they used when they developed the 17Mach II.

[billsshed]

Very impressive all round Bill, that load certainly seems accurate enough for the intended job, which shot was the low right ? Cold barrel, or just one that goes out a bit ? You need a $2.00 coin for your future photographs.
Ever tried making your jackets out of 22mag or 17hmr brass, I imagine that it is a bit thicker in the head, so would make a heavier jacket ? Would give you a longer thicker heavier jacket. Alternatively some CCI stinger brass as it is a lot thicker than other brands, I think that is what they used when they developed the 17Mach II.

Yes I have made 69gn projectiles out of .22 Mag cases. Once derimmed in a 6 mm die I drew them down to .220 and then trimmed to length. I do not use them but made them for a bloke to trial in a 1:8 twist barrel. They shot far less than a inch.

image.jpeg (37.64 KiB) Viewed 768 times

I did try and build a .224" 40gn projectile that was .572 long to copy the length of a 55gn Vmax for a bloke who wanted a light projectile the same length as his normal 55 gn load. These were made out of stinger cases and the heavier .22mag case to get the length of jacket. This was a failure as the jacket was so long and with so little lead the jacket crumpled and could not be point formed.
Ref the low right hole in the group, I did check the cases after I looked at the group and found a odd case in the set of five. I do not know if it was the flyer but odds are it was. Little changes make big differences in these small calibres. When hunting I do not really worry about it as I only need minute of critter head, which is quite large!

Bill

[Camel]

Great stuff Bill, keep the info coming and Ill keep up with the questions.
Re the CCI stinger cases, I was really wondering if you had used them to go down to 17, say you made them up to 20gns instead of 17, keeping the length of the jacket to about what you have for the 17gners, would end up similar to the 20gn ones made by, I think, Hornady.

[billsshed]

I have not taken the stingers down to 17 cal but it would not be hard. Any .22LR case derimmed and then drawn down to .169" will be at least .915" long. A stinger case would be longer again.
The 20 gn projectiles I built had jackets trimmed to .542" and finished point forming at .514" long. There is a lot of brass that needs to be trimmed off, ie approx .400"
I have measured the Hornady Vmax and it is .597" long inc the plastic tip. I do not think I could make a projectile that long with out it crumpling. If you look closely the Vmax has very little swaging done to them in the way of point forming. Most of the point is the plastic tip.
I am doing some trials with inserts in the point to support the brass during point forming but that is ongoing.
I could make the 20 grainers a little longer but there is a limit. I hope that answers your question.
Keep them coming.

Bill

[Camel]

Yeah, gotcha mate thanks. Ill annoy you with some more Q's when they come.