1000yd br /500m fly start up advice

[RDavies]

Reloder 15 and a good 6 mil bullet. Whodda thunk that?

This is what I don't get. I won LG at the 2013 SCC with a 6 mil. Placed second in both score and group in HG using the same LG. Last year Jacko cleans up at SCC LG with a 6 mil. Then wins Fly with same 6 mil as I did years ago. But 6 mils are no good for Fclass or 1K? Run the numbers boys using real world data like say that from this years PRS events. Seriously the only reason the 7s rule is because few are smart enough to see the wood for the trees. Not saying Fclassers are dumb, rather that they have developed sheep syndrome associated with SR BR.. Have a very close look at what is NOT being used in PRS at 300 to 1200 yards.

Yes, in 1000yd BR and flyshoots, the 6mms win LG most of the time as they are the best tool for 1000yd LG and 500M fly LG.
As for F classers only using 7MMs due to sheep syndrome, well, not sure about that. Most F class shooters compete in long range club shoots once a week, maybe practice mid week, usually attend 1/2 dozen prize meetings a year and a 5-7 day championship (Queens) shoot 1-4 times a year. I would say 3000-5000 rounds fired at long range a year for the better F class shooters is the norm. Most serious F class shooters shoot a few 6mms and 6.5s in club and smaller comps and save their 7MMs for big meetings. (I have 5x 6MMs, 2x 6.5s and 6 or7x 7MMs at the moment so no sheep syndrome here). I LOVE shooting my 6MMs in F Class but in a serious F class state, national or world F Class championships I, like others switch to 7MMs. (I know a state Queens was won by a 6MM a few years ago and a 22BR 8 years ago)
When I or many other F classers shoot fly or 1000yd BR LG, we usually switch to our beloved 6MMs as they are what works for that game. (Though I am keen to try a 6.5x47 for fly shoots as I think it has some beneficial traits).
As for what they use in PRS, no idea, I haven't shot it, but I would likely gravitate to what the majority found works in that discipline.

[RDavies]

so Rod if you were using the 47mm long lapua case you would leave it as a 6.5MM?

And yes I have seen dashers win matches but they were being run by blokes with a lot better wind reading ability than me.

I should have had this bright idea at the missedathon and talked about more sensible stuff around the fire!!

I was set up for 6x47 up until a few years back and went though a few barrels. I gave up on it but I have seen some shooters go great with them, so it seems they have some potential. One reason I would be keen to try a 6.5x47 for fly shoots is that it will be slightly easier on barrels than a 6x47 version, but then most fly shooters don't fire massive amounts of rounds, not sure if barrel life comes into the equation. With better barrel life, you wont be chasing your tune as much which might be handy for a newer competition shooter. Another reason I would like to try a 6.5 over a 6mm is very slightly bigger holes in the 500M Fly target might be a little quicker to find the holes when visibility is not great. The mid sized 6.5x47 case should still give light enough recoil in a 17lb gun to get your shots on target quickly, but just not as quick as a 6MM.
BTW, this is all speculation as I have only ever used a 6 Dasher and a different mid sized 6.5mm for the few Fly and 1000yd BR LG I have done, but haven't used the 6.5x47 yet.

[Tony Z]

I'm sure this was covered on here recently. Putting aside my intense dislike of the 6x47 Lapua cartridge the common thought process is spinning the bullet too quickly. Make of this what you wish, all my recent 6BR barrels have been 8.5 twist. If you go faster in speed you increase RPM so it makes sense you could run slower with the likes of a 6x47. There is stable and unstable but then there is that line of demarcation where a bullet is on that verge of disintegration which is somewhere over 260K RPM. When i look at those that tried a 6x47 with little or no success, my first questions are, what twist, what bullet? If you ran an 8 twist and a 103/107 grain bullet, you got what physics told you would happen. This is part of that sheep thing i mentioned earlier.

The quickest way to getting better at long range shooting is by eliminating all the organic components. A HG built right will show you what the conditions are doing. A LG will always show up what you're doing leaving doubt on everything else. You build a HG in a proven cartridge you will very quickly learn how to score. My only regret in 1K was not building a seriously obese HG in 636 or Dasher. I can hear the cogs in Jackos head.

[justjeff]

As someone who regularly accelerated a 107 to 3300 plus, in an 8 twist, all I can say is forget the Berger/ Litz BS on twist rates and accept that with a velocity over about 3100, you need to think about a 9 twist. Used the 8 twist, and watched SMKs blow up at 306000 rpm. Just my real world experience, by the way, I have ordered a new 9 twist, so putting my money where my mouth is.

Jeff

[trevort]

I decided to just copy DG

[kickinback]

As someone who regularly accelerated a 107 to 3300 plus, in an 8 twist, all I can say is forget the Berger/ Litz BS on twist rates and accept that with a velocity over about 3100, you need to think about a 9 twist. Used the 8 twist, and watched SMKs blow up at 306000 rpm. Just my real world experience, by the way, I have ordered a new 9 twist, so putting my money where my mouth is.

Jeff

I like the way you blokes take info from a well respected source, try it, break stuff, prove it wrong and then call it out.

Outstanding.


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[Rinso]

I'm sure this was covered on here recently. Putting aside my intense dislike of the 6x47 Lapua cartridge the common thought process is spinning the bullet too quickly. Make of this what you wish, all my recent 6BR barrels have been 8.5 twist. If you go faster in speed you increase RPM so it makes sense you could run slower with the likes of a 6x47. There is stable and unstable but then there is that line of demarcation where a bullet is on that verge of disintegration which is somewhere over 260K RPM. When i look at those that tried a 6x47 with little or no success, my first questions are, what twist, what bullet? If you ran an 8 twist and a 103/107 grain bullet, you got what physics told you would happen. This is part of that sheep thing i mentioned earlier.

The quickest way to getting better at long range shooting is by eliminating all the organic components. A HG built right will show you what the conditions are doing. A LG will always show up what you're doing leaving doubt on everything else. You build a HG in a proven cartridge you will very quickly learn how to score. My only regret in 1K was not building a seriously obese HG in 636 or Dasher. I can hear the cogs in Jackos head.

As usual Tony you cut to the chase and win by a large distance. If I could sight one thing that I constantly see being done poorly it is choosing the right barrel twist for the task. People and many gunsmiths just run the standard ratio's and produce yes .. standard results. I learnt years ago via the 6x257WBY which drove 105 bergers to death in an 8 twist barrel. A bucket of ADI 2214 and 3800fps just did not work with a fast twist barrel. I had some long chats with both Brian Litz and Eric Stecker (mainly Stecker) identified a twist rate of 9.5 as more ideal. While I never did chamber a 9.5 I did try a 10 twist which would just work in the right conditions but was hit and miss based on weather and range location.
The 6 x 47 Lapua's I have built or been involved with have been 8.5 twist with one exception being an 8 twist which the owner ran at 2900fps which worked really well. The twist rate is critical I am sure we have all seen 30 cal HG's that don't shoot like they should and most often they have faster twist barrels than required.
This applies across the board in all calibres, you see blokes running fast twist barrels. Imagine the 30 Redneck with a 1:10. I doubt it would have been nearly as effective.

As someone who regularly accelerated a 107 to 3300 plus, in an 8 twist, all I can say is forget the Berger/ Litz BS on twist rates and accept that with a velocity over about 3100, you need to think about a 9 twist. Used the 8 twist, and watched SMKs blow up at 306000 rpm. Just my real world experience, by the way, I have ordered a new 9 twist, so putting my money where my mouth is.
Jeff

You will get better results with this twist rate for sure Jeff I have seen it myself as I said above.

All that said Trev you won't go to far wrong listening to DG he is a very clever bloke, a great wind reader and to top it off a great bloke. Your in very good hands there.

[trevort]

do you want to borrow my reamer and I will order your dies for you.

I know I'm not the pointiest bullet in the ammo box but even I could see the sense in just saying yes

[jacko-2]

your on the money and well sorted trev,,yes tony , the cogs hav been ticking for a while,,its just a money thing ,i brought a heap of big 7mm barrels years ago ,so i use them,,but ive just taken delivery of a borden BRMXD action,,2 barrells ,,both brux ,,6mm and 7mm,, one guess wot there gunna be ,, switch barrel medium weight gun ,,im getting old,,now just need a few more scopes,,im gunna fix the lilja once and for all,,its going to the next fly shoot JACKO STYLE ,,BMG powder whith a seirra rammed on top ,,,if u lissen real close u can hear the barrel screaming ,,,meerrrrcccyyy

[Brad Y]

Would be doing an 8 twist dasher any day of the week.

[trevort]

Got a text last night that Luke has fitted the Maddco barrel to my BAT action. Its ended up at 28 1/4 inches.

Its the 6br AI.


Now to scope choice. Easy option is the 12-42 NF BR as I had one before.

Other options are a second hand NF competition or one of the big sightrons.

55 or even 60 as top magnification is appealing but you can see 6mm holes at 500 in good conditions with a 42 and when the mirage is up, well doesn't matter what power your scope is does it.

I haven't heard of many people with the 60 power Sightrons so its an almost unknown quantity but it appeals to the hip pocket nerve. Any one using one?

[kickinback]

Get a sightron SV so I can look at one in the flesh.


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[trevort]

I'm pretty sure Seddo has one. I'm not sure how much he has used it though.

[Seddo]

I haven't heard of many people with the 60 power Sightrons so its an almost unknown quantity but it appeals to the hip pocket nerve. Any one using one?

I have one on my 6mmBR and love it. I'll get another one when i finish the Python too.

[trevort]

I haven't heard of many people with the 60 power Sightrons so its an almost unknown quantity but it appeals to the hip pocket nerve. Any one using one?

I have one on my 6mmBR and love it. I'll get another one when i finish the Python too.

Do you shoot it in 500m fly. Can you see bullet holes?
do you have an NF Br?

Have you compared them? Tracking, clarity etc?