Advice on ADI powder listing

[patroldog]

Need some advice guys from a newbie reloader.
I was given a small canister of BM1 which I want to try out to reload for my 223R. I have some 200 rounds of Nosler 40gn BT's, once fired Federal cartridges that have had their primer pockets swaged and brass prepped.
When I look at my 2010 ADI handloaders guide book, it states MIN as 22.5grns and MAX as 25.2gns. I then looked up the ADI website and it states reload data for the Hornady 40gn V-Max at MIN as 24.0gns and MAX as 26.0gns, with COAL as 2.205". ADI does have reload spec's for the Nosler BT's for other powders, but they state a COAL of 2.280". So this is another confusing point.
So, is the change due to ADI using the Hornady 40gn V-Max or have they changed the spec's on BM1's charge rates? On one hand I could start reloading at potentially too low a charge below MIN or get over MAX very quickly.
Any advice on how to interpret this would be much appreciated.

[Flip]

The way you need to look at it is your not using the test barrel/ equipment or rifle they used so any listing is a guide only. Even the use of different brands of brass can have a considerable difference in performance as well as any different component or lot of,will also change performance all be Itslightly some times but it's not worth finding out the hard way.

I would personally start with the lower starting load and work up from there to find what works well in your firearm, safety first . Also be aware that there are variances between lots of the same powder any way so even more to take into consideration.

It also is worth working out the COAL for your rifle. Some times that means seating to what will feed/ fit throughout or in the magazine. So then the seating depth of the projectile can also effect Pressure.

If you have one read and understand a good reloading manual

Flip

[mick_762]

Patroldog . . .^^^^^ what he said.

[kickinback]

Over the years the start loads have varied quite a bit. The bottom line is you are responsible for your own safety. Powder that was made 5 years ago may very well require a lower starting load than what is listed in the latest manual.

[Rinso]

As stated above any info from any source wether reloading manual or other shooters etc can only be considered as a guide. Once you have the basic info you can then select with some accuracy a safe starting load and work up slowly from that point checking for pressure signs at each step.
You must understand that every rifle is different and all have variances as do reloading materials as such everyone has to develop a safe accurate load for their rifle. Any change in the process ie change powder, primer, brass, projectile, seating depth etc etc can change everything.
Always start at an obvious safe point and work up, never assume anything, always ask questions and gather information when you are not certain.
Its all about safety for you and anyone near you when you are shooting.

[patroldog]

Well thank you guys for the learned advice.
I shall start at the MIN charge of 22.5gns and work up in increments of .5gns up to 25.0gns, and watch out for pressure signs. I should find an accurate load somewhere, have it labelled and then stick to it.
As recommended, safety will be kept high at all times.
I will seat the Nosler BT's 40gns for a COAL of 2.260 which works well in the magazine with CCI 400 primers.

[Camel]

As the others said, things change from time to time. Case in point, it was only a couple of years ago that ADI had a starting load of 25ng 2208 with a 55gn bullet, they have now dropped it drastically. I used 25gns for a while and then pushed it up to 26.5 with 55gn bullets, and still had none of the obvious pressure signs like flattened primers, sticky extraction. I dropped back to 26 neat and used that quite successfully as it was very accurate in my rifle at the time.

So don't take for gospel what they wright, be prepared to go a little beyond what is recommended, but again, BE CAREFUL

[Ned Kelly]

G'day All,
as for steps in powder weights I use 10% (1/10th) of the max charge.

This is an important point. As 0.5gn step near maximum in a case with small capacity case can easily exceed your rifle/case limits. Usually causing sticky bolt lift, cratered or blown primers = BAD!

In a small case like a Fireball, that works out to be about 0.2gn

In a 223 about 2.5gn so use either 0.2 or 0.3gn.

Anything from a 243 and above around 0.5gn is fine.

Food for thought.
Stay SAFE.
Cheerio Ned

[Rigpig]

I have not used the 40gr pills I stay up on the 55grns as they hold up better for me hunting. I stated safe and started off 1/2 a grain above min and worked up to max the lower charge was shit 3" groups the max load was 3 shots all touching.

Something I learnt later on is that under loading is as dangerous as overloading. it creates massive pressure build up in the breech.

I also ran 3 blanks through and measured the length they were all the same from memory 60.5mm I loaded up to 59mm and it shot perfect there are better ways but for a start off it all worked really well.

[Jmc]

How low is to low i told few years back with 55gr and 2208 start at 20g and work up is that way to low ?

[Rigpig]

How low is to low i told few years back with 55gr and 2208 start at 20g and work up is that way to low ?

I will look into it when I get a min all my load info is at home I can't remember what reloading manual I read it in but I was unaware of it myself. I started loading my 30-30 with light loads thinking I was working up from a safe level. The min is the recommended safe level not below it.
There is lots of information for and against every thing you do. I was reading information well opinion on setting up the 204 or 223 as a subsonic load so this you would think would go against the grain with light loads.

I will see what I can dig up when I get home and send it to you.

I have stuck to ADI Reloading Manual your LGS will give you one I couldn't find 125 grain pill info on the 30-30 load data and emailed them from there online site the next day they sent out load data for the 125 grain pills.

The load Data is set up for the safe use of the powder you must remember when loading up if you have the top of the wazza new match barrel and Comp ready $8000 rifle you are loading to the same as the guy who has a 1907 used in war beaten up mass produced rifle. so there is going to be a lot of room to move with max loads. It is just something that you will have to work up to slowly and looking for signs of pressure as you would know.

I read a lot of info and as always just weed through it my 223 I had a lot of help from a guy from NT who knows his shit I spent hrs on the phone sorting out little issues and understanding why we do certain things. I Hunt more than Target so I have adapted the info to suit what I need. If I went into Bench Target shooting I would have to refine it again to be competitive

[fenring]

Patroldog nailed it.

[220]

Something I learnt later on is that under loading is as dangerous as overloading. it creates massive pressure build up in the breech.

Only if you are talking under loading to the point you stick a projectile in the barrel and then fire another shot without removing it.
One or two powders may give issues in certain situations but other than that their is no problem.
Would have loaded close to 100k rounds in the last 25 years with powder charges below the starting loads listed in most manuals without an issue.

[Rigpig]

Something I learnt later on is that under loading is as dangerous as overloading. it creates massive pressure build up in the breech.

Only if you are talking under loading to the point you stick a projectile in the barrel and then fire another shot without removing it.
One or two powders may give issues in certain situations but other than that their is no problem.
Would have loaded close to 100k rounds in the last 25 years with powder charges below the starting loads listed in most manuals without an issue.

Cool how much under are you starting and do they group well with lower loads.

[220]

In 222 Ive been down to 9.0gr 2205 with 40gr projectile current starting load is 15gr although it was only 12gr in the previous ADI manual
45/70 Ive been as light as 27gr with a cast 350gr bullet, they do actually list 28gr as a starting charge in the cowboy section with a 385gr cast but if you look in the rifle data the starting loads for 2207 and a 350gr jacketed bullet varies from 48.5-50.5gr depending on the action strength. Most of my pistol loads are up to 25% under starting loads. Accuracy is on par with loads at normal velocity.

Most of the warnings about reducing loads below starting charges are for very slow powders or hard to ignite ball powders the majority of faster rifle and pistol powders can be safely used at lower charges.

ADI's warning
Take special care when working up trial loads with slow
burning powders in large calibre cartridges. Light loads in
some calibres may produce occasional dangerously high
pressures. It is suggested that minimum loads in large
calibre cartridges should not be reduced below about
75% case capacity

Notice the reference to slow powders and large capacity cases, it is possible to load lower velocity in large cases but usually means using a faster powder than normal.