5.6x57 development

[Waldo]

Following on from roadkill61's comment about making a dedicated seater with some bedding compound I set to my now spare std. seater stem (which I won't be using for anything else) so I thought I may as well have a crack at making it work with the B&T 70g pill that was still marking with the Amax seater.

I gave it a wash with some acetone. Then mixed up some builders bog (2 part epoxy filler) pushed into in the end of the stem and pushed a greased B&T projectile into it. It kind of popped back out due to air pressure so I pushed it in a bit more and held it while it set. Gave it a few minutes then removed the pill, tidied up the edge and then with a small drill bit inserted in the stem and turned by fingers to build a little relief area in the end (to accommodate any slight variation in pill pointyness).

Gave it a while to set even harder while I had tea, then grabbed a freshly annealed new case, sized it and gave the neck a real good chamfering. Inserted the now modified seater stem into the die, dipped the base of the pill into my graphite/lead shot container and seated it. Gee, it came out pretty damn neat with only the very slightest of barely visible marks

I gave it some thought and decided to have another crack so went thru the same process and just didn't apply quite as much pressure when placing the pill into the bog, that is now sitting and hardening, I'll have another crack at seating the pill another day but it's looking promising, the B&T 70g may get a proper run after all

The learning process continues.

Cheers,
Waldo

[Camel]

Good onya mate, pity you didn't try that before getting the replacement seater before.

Why are you so concerned with the mark left by your old seating stem ? I wouldn't have thought it would make any difference to the performance of the projectile from one with no marks.

[Waldo]

Good onya mate, pity you didn't try that before getting the replacement seater before.

Why are you so concerned with the mark left by your old seating stem ? I wouldn't have thought it would make any difference to the performance of the projectile from one with no marks.

Probably just my OCD kicking in to a certain extent, but check out this target:

Lowest 3 shots all with slight ring on the pill. Extreme lowest first on clean cold barrel, next two up followed. Top three same load as first three but seated with Amax stem.

Give that rather small sample there is a slight difference (or it may have just been me)

Yeh, probably my OCD. I'll guarantee you won't see me stuffing around like this once the weather cools of a tad I'll be

[Camel]

Yeah, no worries mate, I saw those the other day, and must say its pretty impressive, nearly up to 20 cal standards.

I have used projectiles that had been pulled with side cutters, the difference I found wasn't enough to make me have sleepless nights, and they still killed critters well.

OCD has a lot to answer for IMO

[mick_762]

Waldo,
Could it just be that a cold clean barrel, has a differing POI?

I know my PacNor target barrel needs a few "foulers" to get back to optimal accuracy post cleaning.




Just a thought,
Mick

[Waldo]

Bloody hell Camel, you 20 cal guy's are worse than born again Christians or reformed alcoholics. So single minded and not much fun to be around

Yeh Mick, fair chance you're right on the cold vlean barrel idea. As we all know confidence makes a huge difference in shooting so nice tidy pills it is. Either way I'm pretty happy with it.

Cheers
Ross

[b t]

Ringed bullets means the neck tension is different to the others...thus different poi

[Camel]

Ringed bullets means the neck tension is different to the others...thus different poi

Could it also be caused by the bullets being softer than others ??

[Waldo]

Exactly the same pills in that last pic, only difference was the seater stem being gentler on them.

[b t]

Im going to send you some 60 gr Varmint R use them to fireform some cases and then try reseating the premiums you have.
Call it r&d to settle my hunch.

[mick_762]

Ringed bullets means the neck tension is different to the others...thus different poi

bt,
Not if its the seater that is doing the "ringing" i.e. a "sharp edge" that Waldo has taken care of with his builder bog formed - seating die.

However in the name of science, I will continue to follow Waldo's thread - if for no better reason than I have been hunting with him and dare I say (just don't tell him) he is a pretty good bloke

[Waldo]

Thanks BT, I'll give it a trot in the name of science and to satisfy your curiosity.

To quote a famous personality "why is it so?", I think there is a couple of contributing factors to the marking of the pills:
1) The famously thick necks which resists the entry of the pill.
2) The shape of the seater stem not putting an even pressure on the pill to get over that initial resistance.

I've got a few boxes of virgin brass so I'll anneal a few cases, size and fire form and see what happens next. Newbie question on the subject of fire forming what percentage of load do I need to get enough pressure? Just run min. book load?

I re-did the builders bog seater adjustment again the other night, not quite perfect but bloody close. I may grab a hot melt glue gun and give that a trot, I reckon it might get a smoother surface than the builder bog?

Cheers,
Waldo

[b t]

well you could just use a soft load but when I fireform cases since I'm paying for a bullet and a primer and powder...well ok maybe not a bullet ... I usually just load em up to my fav load and cut em loose at cats ..foxes ..pretty much anything that needs a new hole.
I just keep the range somewhat short ..your mileage may vary though .

[b t]

Ringed bullets means the neck tension is different to the others...thus different poi

bt,
Not if its the seater that is doing the "ringing" i.e. a "sharp edge" that Waldo has taken care of with his builder bog formed - seating die.

However in the name of science, I will continue to follow Waldo's thread - if for no better reason than I have been hunting with him and dare I say (just don't tell him) he is a pretty good bloke

Yeah I agree Mick but I think Waldo fixed the edge issue

[celovic]

Hi Waldo

Steve Nash has been at me to get onto the site and have a chat with you re the 5.6x57 RWS development. I too have been developing for a year now, and just when I think I have it, I get some random flyers and think, I should re barrel to 308.

I've been through most of the pills you have. Interestingly, way back when, I started with 37.5gns 2209, 74gn cone point, shot 1 inch (100m). Now I am back at 37.5grns of 2209 with a 69 gn match king. I've tried 2208, 2206, BM2 and a few others, and I've tried pills from 50 to 75, in lots of combinations. The current is the most accurate. I wish I could buy the original 74gns, but no one carries them. (and please anyone reading this, there is no need to tell where I can get them, unless you have them).

I was interested to read about the random lengths and the bolt closing issue, its happened to me a few times, and it was a great solution that was posted.

It's a very frustrating piece of brass indeed, what I would like to do is get some factory loads to benchmark the hardware. (Steyr Model N)

Anyway, keep up the good work, and I'll be posting some results now that I know there is some one else with the patience of a saint.

Chris