5.6x57 development

[220]

For a hunting rifle, I wouldn't have even considered it in the first place.

Im not putting a downer on anyone who wants to be anal enough to go through all the case preparation for brass used for serious target work, in their situation it may make a difference. But I prefer to keep my sanity, and for a field rifle, there are a lot more things that have more importance when hunting.

Probably true in most cases but look at the variation in case weights, well over 10%, you would expect a fairly similar variation in capacity as well. I wouldn't be comfortable loading at anything other than starting loads. Think of it this way the % variation in capacity is probably similar to the difference between a 223 and 222. There is no way I would use 223 data in a 222.

Waldo given the weights I think you have 3 different batches of brass and I would be sorting them into 3 different lots.
5gr variation doesn't worry me but 35gr+ certainly does

[Waldo]

Waldo given the weights I think you have 3 different batches of brass and I would be sorting them into 3 different lots.
5gr variation doesn't worry me but 35gr+ certainly does

I haven't checked the virgin brass for length but with weights in the mid 230 grains range if it is a bit long it may come down a bit when trimmed (yep there is some brass in those necks). The stuff I'm working with has been FLS'd twice and trimmed so could be a little under new brass in weight?

I've got enough brass to leave the new stuff sit till I need it and just work with the stuff I'm currently using which with the exception of a handfull of konepoints (?) is pretty consistent.

Finding the heavy ones should be pretty easy and I don't think there'll be that many. The difference is obviously enough to show pressure signs and I do want to run this thing reasonably warm and set it up to shoot as good as it can as much as an exercise as anything else and also as a bit of a tool to fine tune my shooting skills (and that can't hurt)

I think I've mentioned this before but this 5.6 has been a pretty good learning (insert frustrating if you like) experience. I'll get up early tomorrow and load up the 15 I have prepped and get ready to dong a few roos on the head (under permit of course) to give it a test, 75g at 3200fps or thereabouts should be pretty effective

Cheers,
Waldo

[aaronraad]

Waldo, after reading about case weight and a heap of other things that "MAY" cause variations in velocity/accuracy some years ago, I decided that I would weigh the cases I was going to convert to 20/222, I weighed 5 and then decided, fuck that for a joke, and have never ever thought of weighing another case. I even mix brands, number of times fired, different trim lengths.

For a hunting rifle, I wouldn't have even considered it in the first place.

Im not putting a downer on anyone who wants to be anal enough to go through all the case preparation for brass used for serious target work, in their situation it may make a difference. But I prefer to keep my sanity, and for a field rifle, there are a lot more things that have more importance when hunting.

I reckon if you are happy with doing and it gives you more confidence with your equipment, then it will probably make you shoot better.

Total agree Camel, but when you checked case weights did you have a velocity/accuracy issue or were you looking to knock off another 1/4MOA in group size?

I've never checked case weight even on my 308W TR rifle, until I started working with a highly modified wildcat case.

Realistically I wouldn't even normally suggest checking case weight variance but

1. it's a 5.6x57mm RWS
2. the cases were made by RWS
3. the cases could have been from multiple batches

In my opinion the 5.6x57mm RWS is a hell of case to jump into without due consideration. So I've kept my mouth shut until now about those points above and I don't want to get into RWS bashing. That being said, I think it was still an awesome prize and Waldo is doing pretty well at working through his issues one-by-one without decades of load development to fall back onto. The proof will turn up on paper, Waldo probably just has to pull one or two of the right levers and he will nail it. We've just got to point out a few levers for him to pull without overloading the grey matter.

[Camel]

Total agree Camel, but when you checked case weights did you have a velocity/accuracy issue or were you looking to knock off another 1/4MOA in group size?

Nah mate, I did it when I was first forming brass for that rifle, I was going to go through all the case prep similar to target ammo, kind of just to give it the best start I could before I started to develop a load for it. I am basically a pretty lazy critter, so I just decided not to worry about it, I am also pretty impatient getting to the shooting stage.

Waldo, seeing as you have gone to the trouble of weighing them, why not start with the new cases you have as they have the best consistence, once you have found a pretty good load, you could modify you other brass to suit. Just a thought.

[Waldo]

Waldo, seeing as you have gone to the trouble of weighing them, why not start with the new cases you have as they have the best consistence, once you have found a pretty good load, you could modify you other brass to suit. Just a thought.

Yeh, probably not a bad idea but first thing first I'm gonna shoot something with what I've got, been waiting a while so come Sat sparrow fart O'clock the 5.6 should be going for a walk

The 37.8g load was sub 3/4 inch with an occasional "heavy" load thrown in so with those extremes out should be more than ample for what I need short term.

Still keen to see what it can do so next development step may be (with virgin brass?) a few 37.8g loads and play with seating depth a little. If the sticky bolt disappears on Sat I may sneak up a little higher in loads and chase a bit more speed keeping in mind the first two of the 38.2g group was pretty damn tight.



Mmmmmm the story continues

Cheers,
Waldo

[Waldo]

Just loaded up 15 rounds of prepped brass for Sat morning and ran the fired brass on hand over the scales, came up with 15 over 250grains which would equate to roughly what I expected to have of fired konepoint brass, kinda makes sense.

[Waldo]

I got out a sparrow fart this morning to fill a couple of more roo tags and with the overcast conditions and slight breeze it was actually quite pleasant out strolling around. The length of the grass is a real obstacle out there and getting a clear shot is pretty tricky, anyway I'll blame the grass for a few too many misses

Back on track, hadn't walked far when I flushed a couple out of some long grass, one paused and with just the top of its head visible (barely) I took a offhand shot and whacked it on the scone. The performance of the 75g Amax at relatively short distance was "adequate" to put it mildly I did take a couple of pics but I'll leave the result to the imagination

I managed to knock over a couple more for the morning and the projectile performance was pretty consistent and left no doubt to the result and should do the job if I can manage to stumble upon some goats.

As for the rifle it wasn't too bad to carry afield, the pressure problems seem to have been resolved since the "heavy" brass has been filtered out and all rounds ejected easily (tat was a bit of a relief). If blow back on the neck is any indication the 37.8g load is pretty close to where it should be, open to comments on that one?


I managed to burn thru the loaded rounds I had so I may grab some of that new brass start from scratch and run a few more up to test (maybe 37.8, 38.0,38.2) and see where it runs velocity wise accuracy wise, steady progress and there was a lot of worse things I could have done this morning

Cheers,
Waldo

[Camel]

Good one mate, sounds like a few steps in the right direction.
Did you get around to the 69gn Sierras ? Had a mate use them in a 223 Mini 14 years ago, they sure got good results on goats and pigs.

[aaronraad]

Good to read about a practical rifle doing practical things.

If the loads aren't showing much difference at your nominal 100y target testing, it might be time to stretch them out a bit further to see if they start to differentiate in group size at all. Also gives you more confidence with regard to your shooting range.

Also if you're tracking velocity and group size it won't hurt to take some ambient temp measurements. This is handy when you go to a new batch of a particular component and you want to eliminate temperature as drop or increase in velocity. Although velocity and temperature are more critical for long range ballistics, if there is enough of a change it can drop you off the accuracy node particularly if the node is only narrow.

Temperature changes can also show up any major bedding issues between your action and your stock and these can be quite significant the further inland you go for hunting in the daytime to spotlighting at night with the same rig.

Just something to follow/eliminate if your group size if shrinking and growing ever other day...not that we do too much load development of a night

[Waldo]

Nah, I haven't tried the Sierra 69 grainers yet.

Yeh aaronraad, I do need to stretch this out a bit if for no other reason than to give me the confidence on longer shots and improve my technique a bit? They do a 300m fly shoot at the SSAA here, not a member but may consider having a crack at that for giggles.

Steady as she goes, I'll get around to prepping some more brass then load a few more up and see what I end up with.

Cheers,
Waldo

[mick_762]

Hey mate,
Might just be the way I am "seeing" those cases, but is there a horizontal line on the necks?
If its carbon, not so bad, but run your fingernail across to see if there is any hint of case neck splitting.

Mick

[Waldo]

Hey mate,
Might just be the way I am "seeing" those cases, but is there a horizontal line on the necks?
If its carbon, not so bad, but run your fingernail across to see if there is any hint of case neck splitting.

Mick

All good Mick, those marks are on the factory rounds and it is how they have been crimped. Germans generally find a weird arse way of doing stuff, I'll refrain from commenting on Blahsers and Teckels

Cheers,
Waldo

[stinkitup]

Sounds like its coming together.

I remember when I first started reloading my 222rimmed martini. Seeing 50 grain vmaxs go through the target side ways was disconcerting!

But over time have it sorted now with lighter pills.

Keep at it Waldo. I found new brass with the old girl made a big difference as all the brass that came with was all over the place.

Interesting cartridge so good to see some decent results.

[Waldo]

I was going to walk the dogs this morning but intermittent heavy showers put a stop to that, went to the mancave looked at the collection of brass and pondered...........

Ended up throwing the fired brass over the scales and narrowed them down to a weight range of max. 224.3g to a min 217.5g which I thought wasn't too bad with the majority being closer than that. I wasn't anal enough to weigh every case just set scales to a point and checked that everyone was either above or below the set mark (pretty quick but still a bit boring). That gives me 55 cases to play with in that range plus I've got just shy of 60 factory FMJ's (same brass as what I've been using) to either pull or shoot for giggles sometime.

Contemplated running a few more of the new brass over the scales to get a wider sample than the 5 or 6 I tested last time but with a 15g increase or more over the (majority) of the stuff I've been using it would mean start load development all over again and I'm way too impatient to do that. I've already determined that the 37.8g load in this current weight range brass functions OK so that is where I'll start from.

The unfired brass I'll stick aside for now or if I start playing with the Sierra's I can give them a run with those.

Cheers,
Waldo

[Waldo]

Just out of curiosity I snuck to the mancave tonight for a few minutes and put a box of the virgin brass over the scales, out of the 20 cases I ended up a min. weight of 236.6grains and a max of 239.9grains. That give a variation of 3.3g for the virgin brass versus the fired brass variation of 6.8g over a much larger sample (55 cases).

Doesn't exactly say much for RWS consistency though when the average weight of what appears to be 3 batches of brass starts at about 221g vs 238g vs over 250g. The 238g average doesn't include a fired primer into the equation, either way it's a pretty wide range. Probably should have weighed a dead primer just for reference, oh well..................

Just to throw something different into the equation I ordered a box of the B&T Energetics 70g FB LT to give a trot so when I get back on the reloading bench I'll throw together a few of those using the virgin brass. Should be interesting to see how they perform at least it gives me a different configuration pill to try.

Cheers,
Waldo