Powder Storage and How much is too much?

[juzz338]

This brings about a question for me, I do not consider kieths powder collection to be excessive nor old mate who posted in the prepping topic not that long ago, so my question is how much powder, primers and projectiles do you need to have for it to become excessive?

[kjd]

You can only store 10kg as a shooter.

[juzz338]

Sorry I should have worded my question differently. I aready knew and understood about the 10kg. Was after peoples opinions.
whilst we are talking about the 10 kg though, isnt that only for 1 address? For example couldn't I store 10 at home, 10 at my rural property and 10 at the inlaws place and legally have 30kg? Happy to stand corrected. It has been a while since I read the regs but I thought it was worded in such a way that this was possible

[mick_762]

Juzz,
In my opinion - if you shoot a lot then 10kg isn't that much really, but to an office bound beaurecrat - 10kg could be excessive.
All depends on your perspective.

[kjd]

I knew that Juzz, my answer was more based on that kind of being an appropriate amount for the non-prepper.

But 10kg of powder isn't much in reality.

[The Raven]

I knew that Juzz, my answer was more based on that kind of being an appropriate amount for the non-prepper.

But 10kg of powder isn't much in reality.

As an aside, is there a limit on how much ammunition can be held at home? I realise this may vary from state to state, but is it anything like a 10Kg powder equivalent?

[kjd]

I knew that Juzz, my answer was more based on that kind of being an appropriate amount for the non-prepper.

But 10kg of powder isn't much in reality.

As an aside, is there a limit on how much ammunition can be held at home? I realise this may vary from state to state, but is it anything like a 10Kg powder equivalent?

Not that I'm aware but I'm sure what I have will be considered a "Cache" of ammunition in the media's eyes!

[220]

You can only store 10kg as a shooter.

Debatable Keith, the regulations are open to interpretation, I think there was a court case within the last few years where they tried to prosecute someone for more than 10kg, judges interpretation was 10kg per firearm not total.

Maybe someone else can recall the case or more details.

[The Raven]

I'm sure it will be as they always focus on the number of rounds, even if they are all 22 subs.

[Camel]

This brings about a question for me, I do not consider kieths powder collection to be excessive nor old mate who posted in the prepping topic not that long ago, so my question is how much powder, primers and projectiles do you need to have for it to become excessive?

In my opinion you are allowed to have as much as your little heart desires, and have storage room for. I stock up on projectiles all the time if I see them at good prices, they don't have a use by date on them. Powder, as Keith said you are "Allowed" that much, but..... Primers I usually get 1000 when I feel the urge and have the spare cash. Excessive is not really a word that sits well in my vocabulary.

[The Raven]

You can only store 10kg as a shooter.

Debatable Keith, the regulations are open to interpretation, I think there was a court case within the last few years where they tried to prosecute someone for more than 10kg, judges interpretation was 10kg per firearm not total.

Maybe someone else can recall the case or more details.

Wild speculation but..... If that was the case it probably came down to having 10Kg of each TYPE of powder. If you could argue the need for different types for different rifles, then a judge may consider 10Kg of each type required as being OK.

Checking....

Hmmm, WA came up first. Two requirements:

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Propellant and Black Powder Storage

BOTH of the following legislations apply when storing propellants/ black powder.

The provisions of Regulation 11A (9) & (10) and Schedule 4 of the Firearms Regulations 1974 (and a licence is required);
Dangerous Goods Safety (Explosives) Regulations 2007: Part 9 - Storage of Explosives, Schedule 4 (regardless of whether a licence is required).
====

FIREARMS REGULATIONS 1974 - REG 11A

11A . Storage security requirements (Sch. 4)

(1) A person entitled to possess firearms or ammunition of any kind is to ensure that the firearms or ammunition are stored in accordance with this regulation.

(2) Firearms and ammunition are to be stored in a locked cabinet or container that at least meets the specifications described in Schedule 4 or in such other way as is approved.

(3) A cabinet or container that can be unlocked with a key is to be regarded as unlocked if the key is left in the lock or is otherwise accessible where the cabinet or container is located.

[(4)‑(6) deleted]

(7) A magazine is not to contain any ammunition when it is stored.

(8) Ammunition is not to be stored in a cabinet or container in which a firearm is stored unless the ammunition is in another locked metal container in which no firearm is stored and which is securely affixed so as to prevent its removal from the cabinet or container.

(9) Despite subregulation (8), propellant that is not incorporated in a cartridge is not to be stored, whether or not it is in another container, in a container or cabinet that contains any ammunition, firearm, or primer.

(10) The requirements of this regulation are in addition to, not instead of, any requirements under the Dangerous Goods Safety Act 2004 .

[Regulation 11A inserted in Gazette 6 Dec 1996 p. 6801; amended in Gazette 24 Sep 1997 p. 5367; 4 Feb 2011 p. 397.]

[ 11B. Omitted under the Reprints Act 1984 s. 7(4)(g).]
===

BTW I wasn't aware you can't secure a loaded magazine! How silly is that?

Now moving onto the Dangerous Goods stuff:

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DANGEROUS GOODS SAFETY (EXPLOSIVES) REGULATIONS 2007 - REG 85

85 . Ammunition propellant and black powder

(1) A person storing ammunition propellant or black powder must store it safely.

(2) A person must not store more than 2 kg of black powder in any one container.

Penalty: a level 3 fine.

[Heading inserted in Gazette 16 Mar 2012 p. 1179.]
====

Hmmm, now I'll go research VIC

[The Raven]

Keith, this is probably what you're referring to for NSW:

As a dealer, 10Kg limit without a workcover permit:http://www.workcover.nsw.gov.au/formspu ... s_5258.pdf

And it seems the same applies for licensed shooters in NSW:

If you are a shooter licensed under the Firearms Act 1996, you do not need a licence from WorkCover to store
any quantity of ammunition, percussion caps, capped cartridges and up to 10kg of propellant powder and/or
gunpowder, provided they are for your personal use with your firearm.
A licence to store is required if you store more than 10kg of powders.

Plus lots of other crap if you want to exceed those limits, for example a powder magazine...

[Camel]

You can only store 10kg as a shooter.

Debatable Keith, the regulations are open to interpretation, I think there was a court case within the last few years where they tried to prosecute someone for more than 10kg, judges interpretation was 10kg per firearm not total.

Maybe someone else can recall the case or more details.

I think you are on the right track Sean, seem to remember something along those lines from a few years ago.

[The Raven]

For Vic DEALERS : http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.as ... 446#import

How much ammunition can I store, sell, collect and import?

Licensed firearm dealers can sell, possess and store any quantity of cartridge ammunition but larger amounts of cartridge ammunition store have greater storage requirements. Dealers can also import any amount of cartridge ammunition as long as they have an import permit from LRD.

Licensed ammunition collectors can store and collect any amount of cartridge ammunition and can also import any amount of cartridge ammunition as long as they have an import permit from LRD.

Licensed firearm dealers can sell any amount of gunpowder and propellants provided they have a Worksafe Licence to Sell Explosives. Although dealers can also store any amount of gunpowder or propellants, they must have a WorkSafe Licence to Store Explosives in order to store more than 20kg of propellants or more than 5kg of propellant gun powder. Dealers must also have a WorkSafe Licence to Import Explosives to import any amount of gunpowder and propellants.

===
For VIC I couldn't find any specific mention for Licensed Firearm Owners, "An Act to Regulate the Importation Carriage and Custody of Gunpowder" [20th April, 1864.] may still apply...but we're not talking about importation or carriage and I suspect there is some new workcover or OHS requirements introduced since then.

Other googling suggests Vic doesn't have any onerous requirements, but don't take my word on that.

[Tackleberry]

both my LGS say 25KG and a wc ticket for more