To add to what Rinso has posted, yes it is transmission through the entire scope. However white light, as we know, is made up of many different colours. The human eye is more sensitive to some colours than others. To "leverage" this, some manufacturers will measure the transmission of a particular wavelength of light. Whilst this may sound good, remember that under some lighting conditions that particular wavelength may not be all that bright. This in turns means that a scope that is stated as transmitting x% light may actually appear less bright under certain conditions (say dusk, dawn, heavy leaf canopy etc.) than one which was stated as transmitting a lower percentage, simply because one was measured at one wavelength and the other at a different wavelength.
Given that few manufacturers will state the wavelength at which their scopes are measured, and add this to the other intricacies of scope design and suitability, and the whole thing becomes a real nightmare!
help in selecting a scope please
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Dr G
- 300 Win Mag
- Posts: 1841
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:52 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 204 Ruger
- Location: Not in Roxby Downs, SA
G'day Con
I used to use light meters as part of my job measuring the amount of light getting to ground level through vegetation canopy. Its a pain in the arse. They need calibrating and the variation can be huge. I suspect if you did this test the variation with most non calibrated non comercial grade metres would be so great that you would see a 20-30% variation just from instrument error so checking the scopes value would be almost impossible without a sample of several hundred mesurements.
I used to use light meters as part of my job measuring the amount of light getting to ground level through vegetation canopy. Its a pain in the arse. They need calibrating and the variation can be huge. I suspect if you did this test the variation with most non calibrated non comercial grade metres would be so great that you would see a 20-30% variation just from instrument error so checking the scopes value would be almost impossible without a sample of several hundred mesurements.
DrG,
Yep I realised that. Pretty good when you can use Science to bamboozle the market
because you need "special" equipment to replicate results. The leveller is that my eyes are different to yours are different to Rinso's etc... so it still comes back to having a look at the individual equipment under the conditions you want to use it under. Its kind of why I have no doubt thay sometimes anecdotally Chinese scopes will be reported to be as good as a high end European.
zzsstt,
The sunglass manufacturer Revo used to do a similiar thing with its lenses. Ground glass rather than plastic and then coated to specifically allow/disallow certain wavelengths ... green in particular was boosted as it was a "relaxing colour" to the eye and made wearing the glasses for extended times more comfortable. They used to supply the literature with their glasses to show which wavelengths were getting what transmission rate ... UV obviously being 0%.
Come to think of it ... anyone know if any scope manufacturers are using plastic lenses in their scopes for weight savings?
Cheers...
Con
Yep I realised that. Pretty good when you can use Science to bamboozle the market
because you need "special" equipment to replicate results. The leveller is that my eyes are different to yours are different to Rinso's etc... so it still comes back to having a look at the individual equipment under the conditions you want to use it under. Its kind of why I have no doubt thay sometimes anecdotally Chinese scopes will be reported to be as good as a high end European. zzsstt,
The sunglass manufacturer Revo used to do a similiar thing with its lenses. Ground glass rather than plastic and then coated to specifically allow/disallow certain wavelengths ... green in particular was boosted as it was a "relaxing colour" to the eye and made wearing the glasses for extended times more comfortable. They used to supply the literature with their glasses to show which wavelengths were getting what transmission rate ... UV obviously being 0%.
Come to think of it ... anyone know if any scope manufacturers are using plastic lenses in their scopes for weight savings?
Cheers...
Con
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Col. Pogy
I can't point a finger with certainty at a brand now due to oldtimer's disease, but I have seen plastic lenses in common (read cheap) scopes. It was great fun once to see a shooter at the range carefully take such a scope off his gun and then give it mighty whack!!! on the edge of the trash barrel to make it into two parts. pogy
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zzsstt
Whilst I feel sorry for Leupold, and agree entirely with what they say, I can't help but laugh at the typical American/marketing way they conclude with the comments about these cloned tactical scopes failing "in the line of duty". Wouldn't you have doubts about the intelligence of a "law enforcement officer" or "military personnel" who went out and purchased a scope they know costs over $1000USD for $100USD on ebay? If I was going to put my life on the line I'd be damned sure I was buying top quality gear from a reputable dealer, not just any rubbish from ebay at 10% of the current price. But then again, I'm not American. Maybe they should have tried to blame all the US "friendly fire" incidents on these cloned scopes, that would have added impact and found a scapegoat. Mind you, maybe friendly fire and the stupidity needed to buy mission critical equipment from ebay go hand in hand....?Divey wrote:For everybody's interest, google the words 'Leupold Replicas' and have a read of the pdf. file, OFFICIAL TESTIMONY ANDREW YORK U.S. SENATE SUBCOMMITTEE ON TRADE ...
I know it's a bit of a read but very interesting.
Regards,
Lindsay.
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crowbuster
Dr G,
I have a VX11 6-18 x 40 on my 22/250, and am very happy with it (though it wasn't cheap as I bought it in Aus 2 or 3 years ago).
Have recently been looking into the Vortex viper 6 -20 x 44, and they seem like excellent value and comparable to a VX111. Only negative I heard is the reticle is not as fine as on the VX111, which for target work at long range is not as good. I suspect that won't be an issue for you though as it isn't for me. They are having some price specials this month on Vortex scopes if you are interested & have a warranty equal to Leupold.
Regards
Peter
I have a VX11 6-18 x 40 on my 22/250, and am very happy with it (though it wasn't cheap as I bought it in Aus 2 or 3 years ago).
Have recently been looking into the Vortex viper 6 -20 x 44, and they seem like excellent value and comparable to a VX111. Only negative I heard is the reticle is not as fine as on the VX111, which for target work at long range is not as good. I suspect that won't be an issue for you though as it isn't for me. They are having some price specials this month on Vortex scopes if you are interested & have a warranty equal to Leupold.
Regards
Peter
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Dr G
- 300 Win Mag
- Posts: 1841
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:52 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 204 Ruger
- Location: Not in Roxby Downs, SA
Cheers Crowbuster
I have been in comunication with Antony from vortex and he has been very helpful. Decision day is tomorrow and the race has narrowed down to three brands. Vortex Viper, Nikon Buckmaster and Leupold VXII.
The pros and cons as i see them
All have similar quality in build from what i have read and been told (I have never been able to look through any of them). I say similar from my personal "in the field" point of view.
Optics wise the Vortex seems to get the best rap though this is not diminishing the quality of the other two scopes. Most compare the optics to vxIII quality rather than VXII. The best scope i have shot from is a Bushnell elite 3200 so i would love to here were this stands in the world of sports optics
From a reticle point of view the Leupold LR Duplex is ideal, the Nikon bdc reticle would also be ok but at the end of the day this will mainly be used on bigger ferals so the duplex in the Viper would be fine but not as flexable for longer ranging on smaller ferals.
Warranty, Leupold back their warranty with 100yrs of service so that nothing to be ignored. Vortex has the advantage that they will replace the scope locally so minimal wait times here in Australia. Both companies offer lifetime (of the product) tranferable warranties. Nikon offers 12 months - not so good.
Price, Nikon is cheapest, then Leupold then Vortex.
I will decide tonight and place my order tomorrow
I have been in comunication with Antony from vortex and he has been very helpful. Decision day is tomorrow and the race has narrowed down to three brands. Vortex Viper, Nikon Buckmaster and Leupold VXII.
The pros and cons as i see them
All have similar quality in build from what i have read and been told (I have never been able to look through any of them). I say similar from my personal "in the field" point of view.
Optics wise the Vortex seems to get the best rap though this is not diminishing the quality of the other two scopes. Most compare the optics to vxIII quality rather than VXII. The best scope i have shot from is a Bushnell elite 3200 so i would love to here were this stands in the world of sports optics
From a reticle point of view the Leupold LR Duplex is ideal, the Nikon bdc reticle would also be ok but at the end of the day this will mainly be used on bigger ferals so the duplex in the Viper would be fine but not as flexable for longer ranging on smaller ferals.
Warranty, Leupold back their warranty with 100yrs of service so that nothing to be ignored. Vortex has the advantage that they will replace the scope locally so minimal wait times here in Australia. Both companies offer lifetime (of the product) tranferable warranties. Nikon offers 12 months - not so good.
Price, Nikon is cheapest, then Leupold then Vortex.
I will decide tonight and place my order tomorrow
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Dr G
- 300 Win Mag
- Posts: 1841
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:52 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 204 Ruger
- Location: Not in Roxby Downs, SA
Well thats it I have gone and ordered a Vortex Viper 3-9x40. I had pretty much decided on this one allready based mainly on what i have read here and elsewhere on the net but more importantly from conversations with Antony from Vortex AU and the support and waranty offerd by them. From a customers perspective he has offered first rate support and assistance.
Being based where i am and not having many resources to fall back on if something fails, Vortex Australias "if there is a warranty problem our policy is to replace it" arrangement has a lot of clout. I cant afford to wait 6 weeks without a scope or to risk something failing in 14 months and have to buy again.
I did some checking and Vortex have been making Binoculars for a while now so it is unlikely they will dissapear overnight.
Also with the dive on the dollar the other day the cost difference between the Leupold VXII and the Vortex delivered to my door is practically identical. Given that everyone has been comparing them to the VXIII or VariX III then hopefully I am coming out ahead.
Thanks again to all who helped me with this decision. And gave me so much food for thought.
Once i have used it to smoke some donkeys and camels i will write a small update on it.
Cheers
Dr G
Being based where i am and not having many resources to fall back on if something fails, Vortex Australias "if there is a warranty problem our policy is to replace it" arrangement has a lot of clout. I cant afford to wait 6 weeks without a scope or to risk something failing in 14 months and have to buy again.
I did some checking and Vortex have been making Binoculars for a while now so it is unlikely they will dissapear overnight.
Also with the dive on the dollar the other day the cost difference between the Leupold VXII and the Vortex delivered to my door is practically identical. Given that everyone has been comparing them to the VXIII or VariX III then hopefully I am coming out ahead.
Thanks again to all who helped me with this decision. And gave me so much food for thought.
Once i have used it to smoke some donkeys and camels i will write a small update on it.
Cheers
Dr G
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crowbuster
