300Win LR Gun to Ladder Test or Not.

[kjd]

Usually when I develop a load I will load 5 shots at a starting load and incrementally work my way up to max load, then shoot a group of 5 shots in each increment, then I pick the most accurate load. Its how I've done all my load dev in the past.

Should I do this with my 300Win or should I do something like a Ladder Test or something different?

If you were doing this how would you do it?

[bimbo]

I did a ladder test with my 7mm rem mag for the first time. I reckon it is a great way to get a load without burning through a heap of ammo and will do it for subsequent rifles.

[kjd]

I did a ladder test with my 7mm rem mag for the first time. I reckon it is a great way to get a load without burning through a heap of ammo and will do it for subsequent rifles.

Can you describe your process mate?

[Ackley Improved]

minimum 300m.

Load up rounds in 0.3grains from 1.5 grains under max to 0.5-1grain over max. Shoot from lowest to highest taking notice of pressure as load increases. Make sure you can see and know which shot goes where. Look where the holes are closest together. This is how I do it. Smaller cases smaller increments. I also load 10thou into the lands at this stage, unless bergers which have the knack of staying in the barrel if you unload a loaded round!

[bimbo]

I did 8 loads between listed min and max, 2 lots of each. All shot at 200 as that is max distance on the range here but was good enough to see nodes from the 7mm. Shoot from min to max looking for pressure as you go. You are looking for groups of shots that have little vertical dispersion - don't worry so much about movements from side to side.
I also shoot a second target with a 2nd lot of the same loads just to confirm.
I have always started at 20 thou off the lands if the projectile can be set out that far.

[DSD]

If this is also your hunting rifle, it might pay to check magazine length compared to all these distances from the lands, If not or you only ever wish to fire these rounds as a single shot please forget previous comments

[macca]

I mostly follow AI's method.
First i pickrd the pill and powder to get near the speeds i believe will generate the best terminal performance at the distance i expect to mostly shoot at.
When i find the node i take those three powder weights and shoot three or five shot groups. Then play with seating depth if necessary.
For a hunting rifle you could jump them to start but jamming helps removes length of base to ogive differences if you don't sort them for that.

[macca]

The groups are shot after selecting three powder weights from the ladder test.
Its interesting to note amongst most of the top f class shooters,they believe it takes two hundred plus rounds to settle on your best load and tune the rifle for it.
Obviously not needed for hunting but interesting all the same

[adamjp]

Whilst I applaud fine detail increments for small cartridges. 0.5gn increments for something that takes 70gn+ of slow burning powder is a waste of time and $$$. I can assure you that with a hunting class rifle (like the T3 varmint in 300 Win) you will not notice 0.5gn (count the number of granules this is) either way.



1gn increments are perfectly adequate.



I usually start halfway up the powder list with 5 x Cartridges loaded to get on the paper. Then increment upwards from there.

[bimbo]

Agreed Adam, I think I was going up in .5-.6gr increments. Mine showed 2 nodes one down near min and one up near the max - node = 3 or 4 shots hitting on the same horozontal line. Then pick a weight in the middle of that node and shoot some groups at that weight, play with seating depth etc

[Tony Z]

There is an advantage if shot at longer ranges like say at 500 yards. I agree that half a grain increment is to small an increment where it is within the deviation of both group and velocity spread that will give you a misleading result. Like Grant and others have said you will see a node of where the elevation is similar. My advice is to do 3 shots at each powder increment on a very large target with aiming points level and horizontal across the target. You will clearly see the nodes. There is a third node, which i call the Jeff Rogers node, but unfortunately few actions or brass can reach that point. At no time alter the scope setting as it will disrupt the pattern seen.
There will be a point where there will be a sudden elevation increase and often you can get a three shot clover at 500 yards or meters tricking you into thinking you have found the load. Trust me it is not the load. It will be at a node at low pressure or at high pressure of that sudden rise.
If nothing makes sense and no node is visible, then you have either got the wrong bullet, the wrong powder or both. In around 21 shots you will know what does or does not work.

[kjd]

So I am using 208Gr Amax and AR2213SC

Starting Load is 66gr Max Load is 72.3gr

So should I do 3 shots of the following:

66gr
67gr
68gr
69gr
70gr
71gr
72gr
72.3gr

Or could I start a little higher around 68 or 69gr?
Was thinking of using a Coreflute for sale sign (unprinted) at 350yds for the test.

What do you guys think?

[Mick]

There is a third node, which i call the Jeff Rogers node, but unfortunately few actions or brass can reach that point.

Sounds a lot like the Jacko method of tuning a rifle.
Not shooting how you want it to? Whack more powder in. It's ok till the primers start falling out.

[stinkitup]

If you do a ladder type note "type" test. Pick your Increments shoot 3 shot groups at 100m/yds. Use a target you can easily define vertical spread. Do your test shoot them all etc, then you will generally find a node that carries over 2, 3 or even 4 powder weights that shoots to the same horizontal eg 70 gr shoot to the same poi as 71 and 69. Once you find the spot you can load up 5 and shoot a group to check and then do the same thing but with seating depth etc. If your happy with the group and seating depth etc is all good eg fits the magazine then your all set.

There was a very long thread on accurate shooter with this technique for finding a decent long range load without having to shoot at long range.

[Tony Z]

Good one Mick. I forgot Jacko and Jeff went to the same school of reloading.