G'day again AI,
If you do come up next year, you can bet there'll be some shit flying around the range; I've lived up here probably too long, but for family reasons can't even get to the range to compete. If you and other blokes (and their 'better halves') will certainly be shown around. BlackPete has a 'spare ' vehicle at the present he would, I'm sure, make available. if, no when!. you come up give either me, BlackPete, TonyZ or aJR a yell and we'll do what we can; maybe even let you sleep out with our dogs!
Meanwhile, again, good shooting.
the WOOB
6.5 verses the 7 verses the 30 cal.
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woob614271
- 17Rem
- Posts: 1123
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:49 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 17Rem, 22.250AI, 308
- Location: townsville qld
You know what, when my burris 8-32x comes back, I will bolt it on the 6/250 and go out and try some groups at 500m and see if I can shoot that distance, put some ribbons up and things
just for shits and giggles, if I can make a show of it (btw whats a decent first timer group for 500m?) I'll give it a crack.
I'm glad the shit stirring is just that, I'm really looking forward to giving this a go now, just have to wait for the scope to come back.
-Arch
just for shits and giggles, if I can make a show of it (btw whats a decent first timer group for 500m?) I'll give it a crack.
I'm glad the shit stirring is just that, I'm really looking forward to giving this a go now, just have to wait for the scope to come back.
-Arch
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Rinso
- .338 Lapua Magnum
- Posts: 2055
- Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:09 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 25.06
- Location: Hervey Bay Qld
Tony Z wrote,
Archfile if you live near Leeton come to the shoot there, its only 300m but a good place to start. There will be a few forum members trying it out so joing the fun.
If you need a scope for Leeton I will bring a 24 x Leupold for you, thats plenty at 300m
cheers
Rinso
ps ... Why did you cut the hair AI ?? Stood over by the little woman ? or was it more about not looking gay ? ... Its the matching spotting scope and rimfire stock that make you look like an interior designer pal, the hair just looked like a leash.
Shit Tony I would be happy with that. Thst will win LG at most southern events and HG at a few as well.Minute of angle would be just fine at 500M. 3 inch groups centered in the target for five targets will net a 220+ score.
Archfile if you live near Leeton come to the shoot there, its only 300m but a good place to start. There will be a few forum members trying it out so joing the fun.
If you need a scope for Leeton I will bring a 24 x Leupold for you, thats plenty at 300m
cheers
Rinso
ps ... Why did you cut the hair AI ?? Stood over by the little woman ? or was it more about not looking gay ? ... Its the matching spotting scope and rimfire stock that make you look like an interior designer pal, the hair just looked like a leash.
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Ackley Improved
- 6mm Dasher
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:24 pm
- Location: Albury
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Rinso
- .338 Lapua Magnum
- Posts: 2055
- Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:09 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 25.06
- Location: Hervey Bay Qld
Vertical mmmm cause and cure :
Balance ie Barrel making rifle front heavy, causes the rifle to be unbalanced and creates problems with reciol, riding bags and generally is not good. Have the barrel lightened (fluting) or add weight in rear to re balance the rig.
Flex in stock .. some of the stocks you see these days have a lot of flex in them this is a bad thing. Causes all sorts of problems inconsistancy and vertical are among them. Thats why I dont like these new fandangled stocks .. wood or better yet laminate are the go.
Bench technique .. practice it even slight change can have a dramatic effect shot to shot. Like when you get half way through a shoot and then get a concrete block for ya feet ... sound familar.
Do complete load development. Dont stop looking until the evidence tells you whats best. Taking the first load that looks good will hurt you later. .1 of a grn of powder or seating depth changes of.001 can matter.
If you have done evrything and still get vertical try different primers.
Movement in the front rest or having a sand bag that has no movement (rock hard) can cause problems.
The position of the rear bag (alignment) ensure its all square.
Case prep and loading can get you make sure everything is square and true.
Wind reading learn to do it properly
For the hunters.
Clean your barrel, learn to do it effectively and do it as often as accuracy dictates.
I have had a few rifles that put the first shot on a clean barrel out of the group. Fire a fouling shot before you go hunting on a clean barrel.
Don't shoot the barrel hot as this will change point of impact. Remeber this when working up loads.
That do for a start AI.
cheers
Rinso
Balance ie Barrel making rifle front heavy, causes the rifle to be unbalanced and creates problems with reciol, riding bags and generally is not good. Have the barrel lightened (fluting) or add weight in rear to re balance the rig.
Flex in stock .. some of the stocks you see these days have a lot of flex in them this is a bad thing. Causes all sorts of problems inconsistancy and vertical are among them. Thats why I dont like these new fandangled stocks .. wood or better yet laminate are the go.
Bench technique .. practice it even slight change can have a dramatic effect shot to shot. Like when you get half way through a shoot and then get a concrete block for ya feet ... sound familar.
Do complete load development. Dont stop looking until the evidence tells you whats best. Taking the first load that looks good will hurt you later. .1 of a grn of powder or seating depth changes of.001 can matter.
If you have done evrything and still get vertical try different primers.
Movement in the front rest or having a sand bag that has no movement (rock hard) can cause problems.
The position of the rear bag (alignment) ensure its all square.
Case prep and loading can get you make sure everything is square and true.
Wind reading learn to do it properly
For the hunters.
Clean your barrel, learn to do it effectively and do it as often as accuracy dictates.
I have had a few rifles that put the first shot on a clean barrel out of the group. Fire a fouling shot before you go hunting on a clean barrel.
Don't shoot the barrel hot as this will change point of impact. Remeber this when working up loads.
That do for a start AI.
cheers
Rinso
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Ackley Improved
- 6mm Dasher
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:24 pm
- Location: Albury
Good start Rinso.... I suspected most of them. How about this one. When the barreled action is bedded into the stock, if they were not bedded parallel to the underneath of the forend, could this give rise to vertical? What it does I guess is change the way the rifle tracks. If the barrel was aiming downwards to the stock forend, then this would cause the rifle to jump? Maybe you would want the barrel to point slightly upwards so it drives the rifle down into the bags, but then it would lift the rear, giving vertical.
Just another idea? Rinso, Tony Z, AJR?
Cheers
AI
Just another idea? Rinso, Tony Z, AJR?
Cheers
AI
AI
When I fitted the barrelled action to my rifle recently it was installed with the muzzle pointing slightly up.
Discussions with JR and Tony Z when setting up my stock was:
1. Definitely not with the barrel pointing down - will make the rifle jump out of the bags and not very nice to shoot
2. Parrallel with the bottom of the stock may be ok - but still not a preference
3. Barrel pointing upwards preferred - this is to force the rifle down into the bags on recoil
The amount of upward pointing is only minimal. Mine was about 0.030" from memory, from the back of the action to the front of the stock.
Having the muzzle pointing upwards like this will not cause the rear of the rifle to lift as it is not mechanically possible.
When I fitted the barrelled action to my rifle recently it was installed with the muzzle pointing slightly up.
Discussions with JR and Tony Z when setting up my stock was:
1. Definitely not with the barrel pointing down - will make the rifle jump out of the bags and not very nice to shoot
2. Parrallel with the bottom of the stock may be ok - but still not a preference
3. Barrel pointing upwards preferred - this is to force the rifle down into the bags on recoil
The amount of upward pointing is only minimal. Mine was about 0.030" from memory, from the back of the action to the front of the stock.
Having the muzzle pointing upwards like this will not cause the rear of the rifle to lift as it is not mechanically possible.
It is these subtle little changes in stock configurations and rests that we have been playing around with for a while now. Definetly an upward barrel bias is preferable, but does not eliminate all vertical problems. Some of these will still be in the load or in the bullet. Fast twist barrels in certain conditions show some vertical anomallies as opposed to slower twists, especially at 1K. The frustrating part of this vertical thing is that at 100, 200 and even 300 yards the vertical is not always evident. Only when you get back further and then eventually back to 1K, that you stare at a ten shot group 4 inches wide and 20 inches high and wonder how this is possible when the thing shoots in the ones at 100 yards. The chrono tells you shit as the manufacturer has hidden somewhere in the destructions or a website the accuracy of the device and none can garantee better than plus or minus 16 fps, and that is in the lab not out in the dust and rain. So two shots can read 3000 fps , but in actual fact be potentially 32 fps apart, which at 1K, according to the ballistics charts, is a lot of vertical. So you either believe in compensation of barrels, or low ES and either way you have to try different powders and bullets and powders etc, until the vertical goes away.
If your talking about a 6BR AI, try 2209 and the 450 magnum primer and keep going till the case fills way up into the neck. This powder over 2208 and the 107 SMK eliminated al my vertical woes.
Tony Z.
If your talking about a 6BR AI, try 2209 and the 450 magnum primer and keep going till the case fills way up into the neck. This powder over 2208 and the 107 SMK eliminated al my vertical woes.
Tony Z.
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Ackley Improved
- 6mm Dasher
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:24 pm
- Location: Albury
Thanks Tony
I am just doing a bit of research on vertical as I hear that 6.5's are bad for it, and I have near completition a 6.5X55AI. Getting some ideas around the issues before I start with it is my plan.
Using RL-15 in my Improved BR results in not much vertical, but then again, is it the powder, barrel etc. You just dont know. Talking to someone who I respect as one of the best in Australia, with his 6.5 he said he removed a lot of his vertical with neck tension and seating depth. If the seating depth changed by very little, then the target would show a vertical pattern. But when the seating depths were within the range (bugger all), the vertical just seems to disappear. I understand the ES at 1000yds, as the projectile is slowing up a lot by then and a variance of 30fps would result in vertical. I am looking at getting one of those CED chrony's, as I hear they are ok!
I guess you come to say every rifle is different, and maybe its just one of these issues that may resolve in a vertical being removed.
Time will soon tell I guess!
Cheers
AI
I am just doing a bit of research on vertical as I hear that 6.5's are bad for it, and I have near completition a 6.5X55AI. Getting some ideas around the issues before I start with it is my plan.
Using RL-15 in my Improved BR results in not much vertical, but then again, is it the powder, barrel etc. You just dont know. Talking to someone who I respect as one of the best in Australia, with his 6.5 he said he removed a lot of his vertical with neck tension and seating depth. If the seating depth changed by very little, then the target would show a vertical pattern. But when the seating depths were within the range (bugger all), the vertical just seems to disappear. I understand the ES at 1000yds, as the projectile is slowing up a lot by then and a variance of 30fps would result in vertical. I am looking at getting one of those CED chrony's, as I hear they are ok!
I guess you come to say every rifle is different, and maybe its just one of these issues that may resolve in a vertical being removed.
Time will soon tell I guess!
Cheers
AI
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PIGG760
Hi guys, AI has almost convinced me to build a rifle and compete. Would like to know from you guys what calibre would you recommend, stock etc…I have shot for many years (hunting/Varminting and clay targets) and am comfortable with recoil as I own 22-250, 7mm Rem mag, 444 marlin, and my clay target gun…
I believe AI has sent off an email to Shane, regarding this same question…
Also would it be practical to use the same action in a tactical stock for varminting/hunting and than transfer over to a BR stock???
I was thinking of a 260AI for the calibre but am partial to the 7mm calibre but what cartridge…
Look forward to your responses and thanks
Pigg760…
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Ackley Improved
- 6mm Dasher
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:24 pm
- Location: Albury
PIGG760.. it has to feed from a magazine the caliber you choose. For a dedicated Fly rifle the 284 or 30-284 are good choices, but I think there maybe a few feeding issues.
You are after a rifle that will spend 90% of the time in a tactical stock, being used as a repeater.
The other 10% will be to dabble at 500m Fly, hence putting the barreled action into a benchrest stock, and it must stay in LG class.
That being said, now fella's pick a caliber. The one that I can best think for this situation is the 260AI. They still seem to feed well with the Accuracy International stock and magazine, and you are getting very close to 6.5-284 performance.
How about the dirty old 308 and 155 Scenars?
Cheers
AI
You are after a rifle that will spend 90% of the time in a tactical stock, being used as a repeater.
The other 10% will be to dabble at 500m Fly, hence putting the barreled action into a benchrest stock, and it must stay in LG class.
That being said, now fella's pick a caliber. The one that I can best think for this situation is the 260AI. They still seem to feed well with the Accuracy International stock and magazine, and you are getting very close to 6.5-284 performance.
How about the dirty old 308 and 155 Scenars?
Cheers
AI
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PIGG760
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Rinso
- .338 Lapua Magnum
- Posts: 2055
- Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:09 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: 25.06
- Location: Hervey Bay Qld
PIGG760,
Mate I reckon your question needs a new thread detailing exactly what you want the rifle to do .. just MHO.
And the best advice I can give you at this point is STOP listening to AI, he's a known Custom Action Junkie / Groupie and has an unhealthy affiliation to 17lb 6mm target rifles and Tactical rifles in 338 Lapua (now maybe its me but thats back the front)
Anyway .. start a thread ans see where it takes you.
cheers
Rinso
Mate I reckon your question needs a new thread detailing exactly what you want the rifle to do .. just MHO.
And the best advice I can give you at this point is STOP listening to AI, he's a known Custom Action Junkie / Groupie and has an unhealthy affiliation to 17lb 6mm target rifles and Tactical rifles in 338 Lapua (now maybe its me but thats back the front)
Anyway .. start a thread ans see where it takes you.
cheers
Rinso