Tracking Point - Good or Bad for LR Shooting?

[kjd]

Watch these two videos:
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The Tracking point system in my eyes basically turns the shooter into a turret that points the gun in the right direction and makes the choice of approximately when the firearm should fire.

All you need to do is input the wind and it takes care of every single thing for you. You "paint" a target and when you are ready to fire you pull the trigger and the gun will go off when it feels it can make the shot.

It is fascinating technology and some smarts have gone into it, I love it as a piece of tech. But after watching all the back slapping in the LR Hunting video (second video) they made it out as if they were pulling off incredible feats. The rifle is, the shooter isn't, the shooter requires no skill to operate the gun and thus I feel that it takes marksmanship away from the marksman.

Potentially scary if it got into the wrong hands too, especially in regards to assassinations but it could be very useful for snipers when you MUST make the shot and in that instance I don't care how our guys make the shot as long as they do.

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts no this innovation.

[adamjp]

If you think that Tracking Point stuff is scary, you probably shouldn't hang around in the circles I am exposed to.

A gent I've worked with for years owns a small-medium local company that does the usual consulting and prototyping for people around town. He pimps himself out with my mob for three or four days a week at a good price and we have had the odd brew to discuss the latest management/political idea.

Since he knows I'm a rabid shooter he invited me over to the workshop last year to look at the latest thing they had made on the 3D printer. I couldn't take any photos, but they had built an electromechanical system mounted on a normal HMG tripod that allowed them to cycle, aim and fire a Blaser straight pull sniper rifle remotely.

The whole thing was still in prototype phase with CNC milling to come for the working prototype, but even then caused a stir at the last Land Warfare Conference.

The idea is that an ordinary patrol of grunts can emplace the whole system, camouflage it up, and then retire to a secure place and wait for the high value target to come in like intel says it should. The Blaser in 338 Lap mag is aimed by a slaved camera system, the wind, atmospheric, lead and drop are all computed locally and as long as the operator keeps the dot where it needs to be, so too will the bullet be there when they want it. The system is ideal for exposed situations where a normal sniper may not be able to safely egress after the shot.

Now I tender this idea as truly scary, particularly since it really isn't all that hard to do if you think about it.

[kjd]

Exactly mate, it doesn't really scare me that the stuff exists, it is great technology and great for military applications. It just erks me that they were back patting one another for basically being a gun turret shooting out to 1100yds.

I'm not a long range shooter and it's bloody hard for me to make even moderate range shots (500yds).

As I said love the tech hate that it takes the marksmanship away which leaves no skill to the shooter, you aren't hunting it, you aren't shooting yourself, you may as well shoot a sheep or cow in a paddock with it. You can't buy one of these things and call yourself a long range shooter!

I'd love to play with the remote gun turret though, that'd be awesome!

[James270]

If you think that Tracking Point stuff is scary, you probably shouldn't hang around in the circles I am exposed to.

A gent I've worked with for years owns a small-medium local company that does the usual consulting and prototyping for people around town. He pimps himself out with my mob for three or four days a week at a good price and we have had the odd brew to discuss the latest management/political idea.

Since he knows I'm a rabid shooter he invited me over to the workshop last year to look at the latest thing they had made on the 3D printer. I couldn't take any photos, but they had built an electromechanical system mounted on a normal HMG tripod that allowed them to cycle, aim and fire a Blaser straight pull sniper rifle remotely.

The whole thing was still in prototype phase with CNC milling to come for the working prototype, but even then caused a stir at the last Land Warfare Conference.

The idea is that an ordinary patrol of grunts can emplace the whole system, camouflage it up, and then retire to a secure place and wait for the high value target to come in like intel says it should. The Blaser in 338 Lap mag is aimed by a slaved camera system, the wind, atmospheric, lead and drop are all computed locally and as long as the operator keeps the dot where it needs to be, so too will the bullet be there when they want it. The system is ideal for exposed situations where a normal sniper may not be able to safely egress after the shot.

Now I tender this idea as truly scary, particularly since it really isn't all that hard to do if you think about it.

Old news mate, Bruce Willis was pulling that kind of stunt in The Jackal back in '97

[Flip]

I agree guys, from a military stand point going to be the business for those who require it.

From a sporting stand point and not only this product but a couple of others, the Eliminator and Nightsite jibbo. Take the skill out of the hunt so to speak. I'm not the best shot by a long shot but practice makes perfect.

On the other side if one gets used to using a pice of kit like that then what happens when it all turn to a cluster F#*k and no one has the skills to make a critical shot. Remember the
Kiss principal.


Just my 2 cents


Flip

[curan]

Not for me either, but I can't help but wonder.....

Do the black powder boys think we are "cheating" or lacking in skill because we use factory ammo or projectiles?
Or are flatter shooting cartidges lacking in skill compared to someone estimating holdover for a 45-70?



Just a random thought, wondering where the line actually lies............

[Camel]

Shooting, not hunting, but if that's what floats their boats. Just seems like a way for time poor, money rich blokes to fill their tag quota.

[macca]

I think those who quest ultimate accuracy eventually have to remove the human from the equation.
As a long distance hunter I liked the invention of a commercially available range finder, my father laughed at me and continued to use his judgement honed over more years of shooting then I have lived. He was never far out in his calls.

I think we become too dependent on technology even when it makes the job easier, when it breaks or goes flat some are at a complete loss as how to proceed.

So when I shoot I try not to use technology to cover my weaknesses but I shoot LR to test myself. I want the rifle against my shoulder and my finger on the trigger, I want my read on the wind, my breathing and pulse I don't use computer generated drop chart when hunting(i do in competition shooting) I just wear our barrels shooting at different distances and in different conditions to satisfy myself. I have mates who use every little bit of gear. Neither of us is wrong or right we just do it our way to maximise our enjoyment of shooting/hunting.

I want to be the best marksman I can humanly be, not a robotic shooter.

I have some family who need to make shots so yep I want them to have every edge, but I do know that if their gizmos break they will be still capable as they learnt it all the old way first from my brothers,sisters or me as we learnt it from my dad.

The blokes in the vid did have to learn how to press the button so I guess that was something.


cheers

[1kshot]

Natural progression!!!
Sgt Grace with a whitworth
Simo Häyhä with iron sights
Lyudmila Pavlichenko a chick with a Mosin-Nagant n a 4-power scope
And the list goes on....

No real argument can be made against it otherwise to be fair you would have to cut back; fat barrels, range finders, big scopes, environment meters, better designed projectiles, ballistic computers or even wind flags etc. etc. all which make it far easier to shoot out at long range. It doesn't float my boat but the technology is impressive.

Look at a sentry gun been around for years and after seeing a sentry equipped m134 track n lay down 308 rounds, it is eye opening, still glad I don't have to load up the mag, pick up the ammo bill or reload for it!

All the best
John

[chris.tyne]

I agree with John,its an advancement in technology.

[Mick]

It's a pretty cool bit of gear. You can do the same with a rangefinder, pocket weather station and a calculator, but this just does it quicker.
What will people be saying when the M982 Excalibur is condensed down to small arms size? It will happen eventually. It's just progress. I'm kinda all for it if it makes for cleaner kills at long range by people who can't do it manually.

[kjd]

It's a pretty cool bit of gear. You can do the same with a rangefinder, pocket weather station and a calculator, but this just does it quicker.
What will people be saying when the M982 Excalibur is condensed down to small arms size? It will happen eventually. It's just progress. I'm kinda all for it if it makes for cleaner kills at long range by people who can't do it manually.

But don't you think that those who can't do it manually have no place doing it at all?

It is one thing to range your target, get a wind measurement and work out your numbers, then to dial that in and choose when the right time is to pull the trigger. You couldn't make a 1000yd shot reliably before the advent of that technology unless you knew the exact distance. And at least from my view its still a hard shot.

This thing is one step short of just setting up the gun and clicking on a computer screen and saying I wantt that dead, Kill it.

At what point is the human completely removed from the scenario? This takes it 90% there.

I'd love to have a go, but you can't go patting yourself on the back for making the shot with tracking point.

[Buffy]

I agree with you Keith, but the inner tactard in me really wants to have a crack at that lol.

[Mick]

It's a pretty cool bit of gear. You can do the same with a rangefinder, pocket weather station and a calculator, but this just does it quicker.
What will people be saying when the M982 Excalibur is condensed down to small arms size? It will happen eventually. It's just progress. I'm kinda all for it if it makes for cleaner kills at long range by people who can't do it manually.

But don't you think that those who can't do it manually have no place doing it at all?

The same could be said of a lot of things though. Do people using computers have no business doing so unless they designed and built it themselves?
Yeah, it may take little or no skill to operate, but so do many other things these days that were once the realm of die hard enthusiasts exclusively.
To me, it's just another cool gadget.

[kjd]

It's a pretty cool bit of gear. You can do the same with a rangefinder, pocket weather station and a calculator, but this just does it quicker.
What will people be saying when the M982 Excalibur is condensed down to small arms size? It will happen eventually. It's just progress. I'm kinda all for it if it makes for cleaner kills at long range by people who can't do it manually.

But don't you think that those who can't do it manually have no place doing it at all?

The same could be said of a lot of things though. Do people using computers have no business doing so unless they designed and built it themselves?
Yeah, it may take little or no skill to operate, but so do many other things these days that were once the realm of die hard enthusiasts exclusively.
To me, it's just another cool gadget.

It's cool no doubt, but the computer example is a non sequitur. I don't know how to design and make a computer, a car, a gun or just about anything else but I know how to use them effectively.