Starting load for the 17Hornady Hornet

[Flip]

Hi All

Just about to put some loads together for the 17 HH, the only load info is on the Hodgen site with ponders I either can't get or are un available locally.

Looking on the Adi equivelant powder chart AR2205 is the closest to what seems to be the goto powder for the 20 grn projectiles IMR4227. As the powders are only similar and not identical would it be best to drop the starting load by 5 to 10%.

Trying to get to the range tomorrow to see if I can get hand loads to shoot as good as the factory ammunition.

I've not had to do this before so if any one has some tips or things to watch out for I would appreciate it.

Cheers

Flip

[Camel]

Mate, if I had one I would be looking at as much 17 Ackely info as possible, then drop off a grain and take it from there.

[17REM]

Do Hodgen reccomend a load for Varget? Its AR2208!

[trevort]

if you dont have any 17ah info available post the question on Saubier asking to stick Alliant or even better Hodgdon powders as most of those are ADI re badged.

[Flip]

I've looked up all the 17ah info I can find including the ADI Web chart. And 8.5 grains is the starting load for the 17AH for AR2205.
been trolling through the Saubier forum. In fact one bloke there has posted some very interesting info on the 17 HH. Running around 11 to 12 grains of some of the powders listed as equivelant to AR 2205. The Hodgon site has powders that are all equivelant to 2205 but range from 8 to 9.3 in starting loads and I am very aware that tenth's of a grain can make a significant change in these sall cases

So after all the looking and checking I am just trying to err on the side of caution.
I just don't have the experience with knowing what powders are interchangeable, close to or the same (renamed) as others.

Just trying to see what some of the experience is around theses parts with this powder.

Thanks again for all the info chap's

Flip

[aaronraad]

I'm very happy with AR2205 in my .17AH, Winchester case and Federal Match SR primers, pushing 20gr V-Maxes.

Wow, actually just found my Excel spreadsheet from the 5th of April, 2008! I started at 10.4gr and finished at 11.9gr. Not sure if I can post the spreadsheet and chart? Send me a PM and let me know if you the data. I've probably still go the targets out back somewhere...

[stinkitup]

When on the ADI site have you used the powder equivalent chart? Even if its not the same powder gives a good indication if it is the same burning speed.

Ryan

[Flip]

Oh yeah

Been looking at that very closely, it has a note saying that the rates are with in 5% of what's showmen as equivelant. So I should be right might be being a bit to cautious, but better safe than sorry

Flip

[aaronraad]

Just a short safety hijack...

As useful as the 'burning rate equivalent' charts are from the powder manufactuers it would be much more useful if they could quantify energy/expansion rates, powder/packing density and temperature sensitivity.

It's one thing to compare single base extruded powders on a chart, but to start comparing ball, flake or double-base powders. ADI makes the mistake of titling their chart as 'Powder Equivalents', and it's not until you read down further that you get a hint that it's burning rates they are referring to. To the novice reloader they might not realise this is actually a 'powder burning rate equivalent' chart with a +/-5% error.

Take a look at the ADI min & max loads for the 300 Winchester Magnum with a 200gr using AR2225. Now compare that to the Alliant 300WM 200gr load using the 'powder equivalent' on the ADI chart of Reloader 25. Another reason why the powder manuacturers aren't too keen on releasing tripple-base powders onto the sporting market.

Always refer to the powder manufacturers recommended min/max load, not another manufacturer's burning rate equivalency chart!

[Flip]

Point well made and believe me that is what I have been trying to work out, hench this thread.

I may be a novice but I try to get as much info as possible, I'm lucky to have found this site and through here Saubier also and have acces to such a lage knowlage base.

I contacted ADI also and revived a email back suggesting to start at the low end the same starting load as IMR 4227. As I planned to and work up carefully.

Cheers for the load info aaronraad, most helpful as a guide. I put some loads together and even got to the range today All went well I started as suggested at 8.5 and worked up to 9 grains in 1/10 increments. The loads are still quite mild as I hoped they would be.So will continue to work up slowly.

The conditions weren't the best abit windy but just about every group was around the inch or under so there is hope yet. Main problem is the clown behind the butt.

The rifle will put 3 factory rounds into 11mm at 100 meters. (I've only done it once the rifle shoots far better than me)

Thanks to you all for the assistance, I'll keep you posted of the results

Cheers, Flip

[andrewk]

How much 2205 can you pack into a hornet anyway? A mate is using 12gr of 2207 in his AH so might be a safer powder being slightly slower to consider.

[Flip]

I have some 2207 also but went for 2205 behind the 20 grain pills as in most of the info I could find the 2207 closer to the powders being used for 25 grain projectiles . I will certainly trying.

Cheers

[trevort]

Flip many Hodgdon powders arent ADI equivalent burning rates, They ARE ADI powders repackaged.

For instance varget is 2208 and 2206h is H4895 (from memory)

[Con]

Flip,
Try this, but remember its a simulation. QuickLoad pegs the 17Hornets pressure at 50k psi, the Hornady data seems pegged at 45k psi. I ran simulations of Lil-Gun and Win296 and both are faster by about 150fps + ... but at less than 90% fills which surprised me.

If I had a 17Hornet and wanted maximum speeds ... I'd settle on Lil'Gun or W296 ... AR2205 aint the best, but if that's what's available then its certainly not the worst.

Cartridge : .17 Hornet (Hornady)
Bullet : .172, 20, Hornady V-MAX 21710
Useable Case Capaci: 11.982 grain H2O = 0.778 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.723 inch = 43.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : ADI AR 2205

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-12.0 84 8.80 3108 429 34370 4444 95.0 0.951
-10.0 86 9.00 3170 446 36469 4540 95.8 0.929
-08.0 88 9.20 3231 464 38691 4632 96.5 0.906
-06.0 89 9.40 3291 481 41045 4719 97.1 0.883
-04.0 91 9.60 3352 499 43539 4801 97.7 0.861 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 93 9.80 3412 517 46184 4877 98.2 0.840 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 10.00 3471 535 48990 4948 98.7 0.819 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 97 10.20 3530 553 51968 5014 99.1 0.799 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 99 10.40 3588 572 55132 5073 99.4 0.780 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 101 10.60 3646 591 58496 5126 99.6 0.762 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

For comparison ... H4227

Cartridge : .17 Hornet (Hornady)
Bullet : .172, 20, Hornady V-MAX 21710
Useable Case Capaci: 11.982 grain H2O = 0.778 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.723 inch = 43.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4227

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 87 8.80 3048 412 29335 4620 88.3 0.996
-18.0 89 9.02 3119 432 31308 4758 89.6 0.969
-16.0 91 9.24 3190 452 33415 4892 90.8 0.943
-14.0 94 9.46 3261 472 35668 5021 91.9 0.918
-12.0 96 9.68 3332 493 38078 5145 93.0 0.893
-10.0 98 9.90 3403 514 40658 5262 94.0 0.868
-08.0 100 10.12 3474 536 43423 5373 94.9 0.844 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 102 10.34 3545 558 46389 5477 95.8 0.820 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 104 10.56 3616 581 49573 5574 96.5 0.798 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 107 10.78 3686 603 52995 5662 97.2 0.776 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 109 11.00 3756 626 56675 5743 97.9 0.755 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

For comparison ... IMR4227

Cartridge : .17 Hornet (Hornady)
Bullet : .172, 20, Hornady V-MAX 21710
Useable Case Capaci: 11.982 grain H2O = 0.778 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.723 inch = 43.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4227

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 89 9.00 3129 435 32771 4692 89.1 0.952
-08.0 91 9.20 3193 453 34772 4812 90.2 0.930
-06.0 93 9.40 3257 471 36896 4928 91.2 0.910
-04.0 95 9.60 3321 490 39154 5040 92.2 0.887
-02.0 97 9.80 3385 509 41555 5148 93.1 0.865
+00.0 99 10.00 3449 528 44108 5251 94.0 0.843 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 101 10.20 3513 548 46826 5349 94.8 0.822 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 103 10.40 3577 568 49723 5441 95.5 0.802 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 105 10.60 3640 588 52811 5528 96.2 0.782 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 107 10.80 3704 609 56105 5609 96.9 0.763 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

All this appears to suggests that 9.0gr is a suitable starting load with AR2205, and you'd be sneaking up in 0.2gr increments and expecting a safe maximum around the 10.0gr mark. If at 10.0gr your chronograph reads significantly faster velocities (and your sure its accurate), then I'd back down and be wary of exceeding the reload manual speeds.

Again, these are simulations to give you an idea, not recommendations regarding start loads or max loads as there are assumptions being made that you or I can't fully understand. Use the above info at your own risk.
Cheers...
Con

[Flip]

That is very interesting info thanks Con and Trev cheers.

9 grains is a nice mild and safe starting load in my rifle it turns out. As yet no crono figures as I only loaded up 3 of each just to get the ball rolling. So I will be very carefully working up from there.


Question. Again just want to double check,
Those estimated figures are calculated with a 22ich barrel, from what I have read in the past every inch is roughly worth 50 FPS. So should I expect to see slightly higher velocities from a 24 inch barrel and take this into consideration when watching for higher than expected velocity. I realise these figures are only a guide and are by no means real life load data and should be used with the upmost of care and caution.

I hate making assumptions,particularly when it comes to this sort of exercise. Some of these question may seem obvious but i would much perfer asking and double checking than learning the hard and expensive way.


As usual I'm not trying to squeeze every last FPS out of the cartridge.I just want to find a nice consistently accurate load, No fox is going to care about 100FPs or so.

Cheers again

Flip