You know what i hate the most about shooting...

[kjd]

because I don't have the time to go through and delete all the irrelevant info in there to make the good stuff easy to find.

I will do it Keith!

I really wish you would unbunch your panties and get over it.

Could not think of anything intelligent to say Keith?

Glenn

No because, I lost my patience with your overly persistent bitching.

[kjd]

What I hate most about shooting...(at the risk of sounding like a whinger ). Since late last year my local (12 lane) range has been so overrun with large groups of P650 shooters that licenced shooters will at times not get a shot in on the night. They also make the place sound like a rowdy pub with all the non-shooting friends they bring along to watch. It is obvious that most of them of them have no intention of becoming licenced/owning a firearm and the range is being treated as "cheap entertainment". It really has trashed what was a "good thing". Bah Humbug.

In fairness mate, it has exposed hundreds or even thousands of people to shooting, they realise it's a good fun sport, you will get people who will get a license and the fact people can try it themselves is a great thing for our sport.

I don't know how that isn't a good thing.

[trevort]

Keith write this one down somewhere, another one of those rare occasions when I agree completely with you

[kjd]

The range bit you mean mate?

[hobbygodz]

Yes kjd, I agree with you that hundreds of people have been allowed an insight into our sport via the P650 at my club alone. Some have become licenced and some now own firearms. Some of these are juniors which is great as I know they are the future of our sport.
I am a range officer simply to allow people a frendly and responsible entry to our sport. I also coach P650 and licenced clay target shooters. I do support my sport.
The thread topic is "what I hate about shooting" and the hard truth is that I don't like the way our club has been inundated for the last year with large groups of P650 shooters, most of whom have no intentions of applying for a licence or owning a firearm, both by their own admission and the evidence of their repeat P650 applications.
Regular shooting friends are moving one by one to other clubs for the sole reason that they will get a shot in. I feel a responsibility to stay because of my input and position. Licenced shooters are being turned away nightly due to the P650 crowds. Their attached non-shooting entourage makes the place sound like a redfern pub. Not an atmosphere conducive to good shooting at all.
"What I hate about shooting".... thankfully this is the ONLY thing I don't like about it.

[andrewk]

Isn't there rostered club matches for members only?

[hobbygodz]

Hi andrewk, no there aren't any (official) rostered comps / matches at this SSAA range. We used to run some on the sly in the past when the range was quieter. Generally if we want to shoot comp it's a visit to one of the larger ranges on a comp day. We share our range (other nights) with three other clubs that do have a regular comp schedule though. One shoots prone and I'm too old for that, one shoots indoor air rifle which I don't, and one shoots BR, (as I do), two target sheets per night but It can be difficult to get a bench. We only have 12 lanes which isn't near enough for noms entry type comps. With some work / approvals and a lot of money we could squeeze anther 4 lanes in which would help our current situation. Seeya.

[trevort]

yes

[Dr G]

But I have to disagree with you Keith regarding the custom gun vs factory argument you put forward. As someone who by necessity has to record what I shoot and where I noticed a clear improvement in my kill/shot ratio with the arrival of the CatKiller. the only thing that changed was the rifle.

Also I take pride in my tools and equipment and like to have the best i can afford. to be fair the improvement was not equal to the increase in cost but at the end of the day it still equals more dead cats.

I have used three gunsmiths, one was average (used once, never again) one was Shane Clancy and though the rifle took just on two years from ordering to delivery it is still the best piece shooting gear I have ever bought. Waiting was the worst part but in the end the quality of the build means I would probably do it again. Relatively recently I have started using a former neighbour who was a gunsmith then took up engine reconditioning to make ends meet and now has retired to being a gunsmith again. Excellent work and reasonable turnaround times. He has asked me not to publish his name as he has enough work and regular customers that he dosent need advertising or referals. In this blokes case he is doing the work because its his hobby not to make a living so if he isnt interested in a job it is very easy for him to decline the work.

At the end of the day if you are in Australia and you want a gunsmithing job done you just need to be patient and careful about who you choose. Good work will not happen overnight.

Dr G

[trevort]

good post Dr

[kjd]

Hey Dr G,

What was the gun you replaced the custom with and what were they chambered in? What hit %age did each have?

I only ask because a change in cartridge and even rifle type will be important in your hits.

Also are you sure that you didn't become a better shot over that time and also is it confidence because it is a custom gun?

I really believe once you get to a certain point in accuracy of any rifle anything under 300yds comes down to the shooter and the shooter only.

[kjd]

That said confidence in your equipment is probably more important than the equipment itself.

[Tony Z]

A mate and i are going through this custom/factory rifle debate as i write this and we have had a good amount of discussion about the pros and cons. This is where we headed.

Firstly a Sako stainless varmint in some caliber say 22/250 at a retail of $2400 at our LGS. Not going there but is the benchmark to go off. I have no idea what a Remington is worth in a stainless varmint model but after looking at the rifle not going there either.
This what we went with....

Pearce action from Brisvegas landed for $1150
Maddco barrel in 224 cal 14 twist HV
profile @ 26 inches long landed for $ 517
PSS stock i acquired as new locally $ 300
Bottom metal i acquired for zip but
more likely from US at $ 150
Jewell 2 oz trigger from this forum $ 300
Chamber, screw and crown using my
22 BR reamer $ 140
Total $2557

Looking at the factory standard of good quality in the Sako and the cost of the custom, the choice was fairly easy. The action was in stock, the barrels were delivered inside a week. Yes you read that right, less than a week. The triggers we both already had thanks to Chris Tyne. But the difficult part was the stock. Brownells had them new for $319 USD plus shipping but new policy meant a battle with paper work. So we both acquired them locally. Thanks to macca for that and thanks to Jack for the bottom metal. A long fore-end to support the long heavy barrels combined with an integral alloy bedding system and very suited to prone shooting off a bipod made this stock an easy choice. Alan already has a 6 BR similar to this in his safe but always wanted a 22 cal version as well. Not saying this is for everyone, but for dollar value the Sako was not a real option. When a custom can be had for near on the same money, something is priced wrong.

[Wildcat]

SNIP< When a custom can be had for near on the same money, something is priced wrong.

People seem to go through various factory rifles looking for that super accurate gun - when they would find what the accuracy they want cheaper and easier by going the way Tony described. However there's minimal gunsmithing charges there, most people would have to pay more than $140. Still if you're smart enough to nut it out you'll be better off

[Dr G]

Hey Dr G,

What was the gun you replaced the custom with and what were they chambered in? What hit %age did each have?

I only ask because a change in cartridge and even rifle type will be important in your hits.

Sorry mate it has taken a while as i needed to go home and look up some log books. The gun that was replaced was a sporter barreled Remington SPS chamberedd in 223 that had fired just over 3000 rounds. Handloads using 50gn blitzkings had a once off best accuracy of 18mm at 100m for five rounds and 46mm at 100m for five strings of five shot groups. For the last 6 months before the rifle was replaced hit percentage out to 150m in spotlighting conditions (ie door rest) was 70% (26 hits from 37 shots ths was during the drought) . This was replaced with the CatKiller which is a Stiller Predator Action (High tolerance Rem 700) and a Remington Varmint Profile Lilja barrel. Using 39gn Blitzkings best accuracy was 9mm at 200m with 16mm at 200m for five strings of five shots (25 shots). In the first three months of using this rifle accuracy under spotlight and out to 150m jumped to 88% (21 hits from 24 shots the drought only got worse ).

Also are you sure that you didn't become a better shot over that time and also is it confidence because it is a custom gun?

Given the data presented for the 6months either side of the changeover i dont think my skill level improved that much. As for confidence in the rifle that only comes from having something that is clearly better than the factory option. You could argue that its apples for oranges as I was comparing a sporter with what is esentially a high tolerance custom modeled around a VSSFII but thats why I have left the ranges limited to 150m. Beyond that the hit frequency drops significantly under a spotlight and the CatKiller really shines compared to the old Remington. In addition to improved accuracy at shorter ranges it also has added at least 50m to my effective range (this isnt my maximum but the range where i am confidednt of a kill)

I really believe once you get to a certain point in accuracy of any rifle anything under 300yds comes down to the shooter and the shooter only.

300yrds (274m) under spotlight is a bloody long way but acheivable. Anyone who can get consistent 1 shot kills under a spotlight on small predators and rabbits are much better shots than me. My longest recovered kill from spotlighting was 321m on a small cat, I dont claim to be able to duplicate this effort every time. The longest with the Rem was 310m. An accurate and precise rifle will be better at any range just because you eliminate so many of the variables. Sure if you hunting pigs and goats you have an argument that most modern factories are good enough off the shelf but if you are spotlighting small predators at medium to moderate ranges then a good custom will definately be worth the investment

Dr G