Night vision scopes

284win · Post by **284win** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:20 pm

HELLLLLPPPPPPP!!!
I've been bitten by the spotlighting bug and want to take it to the next level.
How/ where can I find what type/ model, etc, are available and what types are restricted or prohibited.
I went to the customs website but that didn't help.

By knowing this info I can narrow my search field.

thx

LoneRider · Post by **LoneRider** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:22 pm

sell ya mine for $800.posted.
let me know if your interested.
full kit,gen1 all paperwork and original reciepts.

jeffk · Post by **jeffk** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:14 am

Try one first if you can - they are an acquired taste. I have a Gen 2 here that I don't use any more, having gone back to using a scope and lamp.

If you're serious, you really want to be getting a very good Gen 2 or a Gen 3, IMHO (Unless it is for close range rimfire work).

LoneRider · Post by **LoneRider** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:52 am

jeffk wrote:Try one first if you can - they are an acquired taste. I have a Gen 2 here that I don't use any more, having gone back to using a scope and lamp.

If you're serious, you really want to be getting a very good Gen 2 or a Gen 3, IMHO (Unless it is for close range rimfire work).

thats what mine was for....

284win · Post by **284win** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:29 pm

LoneRider,
Could you supply the make and model number.
But I'm looking at Gen 2 or higher.

Jeffk,
I agree but unfortunately I don't know anyone who has one.

Brad Y · Post by **Brad Y** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:38 pm

Dont mean to sound silly, but if you have been bitten by the spotlighting bug, why would you get a NV scope? The idea of spotlighting is to use a light to see whatever your shooting???

LoneRider · Post by **LoneRider** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:37 pm

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the reason i dont still use it is i also use the rifle i had it on during daylight hrs and dont need the hassle of having to resight from scope to NV and back again.
i payed close to $1200 for it from memory.

jeffk · Post by **jeffk** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:53 pm

284win wrote: Jeffk,
I agree but unfortunately I don't know anyone who has one.

If you happen to be close to Perth, you're more than welcome to come and look through one.

Tony Z · Post by **Tony Z** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:10 am

I started with Gen 1 and have now moved on to Gen 2+ and Gen 3. The Gen 2 is the PS22 that clips on to the day scope making it all a very versatile unit for both day and night use. With the IR torch the range is greatly extended for nights where there is no moon and clouded over. Those sorts of nights make Gen 1 and some Gen 2 units quite limited for usable detection.
With the Gen 3, one of the units i have is the Mini N/SEAS that is a very handy monocular that clips onto the rifles scope in just a very few seconds once i walk up to game. In total darkness and without any illumination the range is a couple of hundred yards. In quarter moon the range is limited only by the type of terrain. The more open, the further you see and if you are in open savannah, 1000 yards is no issue. I now have two units, one a PVS14 that i scout with, the N/SEAS attached to my Z6 1.7-10. Both are genuine military issue units that are far superior to refurb units sold to the civilian market. But at 10K plus for the pair and extremely hard to acquire, they are out of reach for most people. I grabbed a few more units recently because i feel that it will not be long before this stuff is put on the restricted list. Gen 1 and 2 might be about for a while, but Gen 3, in a class of its own, is a whole different ball game being both passive and effective in total darkness.
There is definetely a corrolation between optics and clip on NV. The better the optic, like the Z6, the better the resolution and ability to take long shots in complete darkness. As for a dedicated Gen 3 NV scope, or any generation dedicated NV for that matter, i have yet to see one that wasn't without some sort of ergonomic issue that i would not tolerate in the field. They are all bulky and short of eye relief and sit far too high off the rifle to make them ideal for what i want to do. What i use in daylight hours and in night time is identical in feel and function excepting that there is a little more weight at the front of the rifle.
.

jeffk · Post by **jeffk** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:21 am

Tony Z wrote:What i use in daylight hours and in night time is identical in feel and function excepting that there is a little more weight at the front of the rifle.
.

Have you got a pic of your Gen3 unit mounted to the day scope?

284win · Post by **284win** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:15 pm

Jeffk,
Damn, I flew into Perth from Melbourne about a month ago. Stayed in Balcutta.
Curious, why did you purchase one and then go back to the lamp setup???

Tony Z,
How did you get the Gen 3 units, purchase locally or import them in??
What was the permit procedure in both cases??

jeffk · Post by **jeffk** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:31 pm

284win wrote:Jeffk,
Damn, I flew into Perth from Melbourne about a month ago. Stayed in Balcutta.
Curious, why did you purchase one and then go back to the lamp setup???

Balcatta is just up the road from me!

I had it back in the UK and it was sitting on a semi-auto, moderated 22 dedicated for rabbits, and for fields full of the buggers was excellent....but in the end, I just preferred scanning the field with the light and picking them off that way, and having the versitility to also use the gun in daylight. I do very little of that type of shooting here, hence why it isn't on a rifle any more!

It's an acquired taste though - you have very little field of view so it's not like you can quickly scan a field for eyes, and if you do that with a normal lamp and then switch to NV it all seemed to much hassle compared to just lamp, eyes, bang!

I'd have an add-on on a centrefire for foxing, if it was a decent Gen3 unit, but even then, I think I'd only use it for lamp-shy problem foxes....2 people and a lamp is just more fun.

cj7hawk · Post by **cj7hawk** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:12 pm

The restrictions on NV already apply to Gen2 and Gen3, but it's only for export. The problem with buying one overseas is that it is difficult to find someone who will sell you a better model as most countries have their own restrictions. Better models do come up from time to time, but are rare.

I have tried and used all of the different scopes available, including unfilmed ( used to be called Gen4 ) and to get really good results you usually need Gen3 or high-end Gen2. ( eg, SHP or Supergen or above ) though good Gen2 and Gen2+ of military origin usually works pretty well.

Personally, I prefer a dedicated NV scope and switch between a day scope and a NV scope however you can also fit a monocular behind the scope if you want to and this is fairly popular in the UK. You can also use a monocular in a shoot-through configuration with a reflex sight which is good out to about 100m and is popular in the US, especially fitted with a suitable 3x lens.

Typically good kit costs around $5K and upwards however reasonable riflescopes and monoculars can now be had new for closer to $3000 in SHP Gen2+ if you're willing to import. There are a few hurdles to be aware of, but nothing major.

Depending on what you want to do, you will need to determine which kit is suitable. Personally, I navigate at night with a Gen3 AN/PVS-14 and shoot with an AN/PVS-4. I stalk passive, but use extra IR to scan or shoot. I also use thermal to spot, which will let me locate rabbits out to about 80m in tall grass.

Gen1 isn't much use, but you can make your own cascade-tube spotter for around $200 to $300 which work very well, with or without extra IR.

There are also some new cheap digital scopes which are good out to about 70m as they use infra-red and these are under $200. I brought one back with me from SHOT show in the US and intend to write up some reviews soon.

Some videos.
Hunting with Night Vision - Moonless, overcast starlight with passive NV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHusnGu2 ... ature=plcp

Locating rabbits with Thermal - Not as simple as it sounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHzwtFnK ... ature=plcp

Can you give an idea what you're wanting to do with your NV and what sort of budget you have? That will pretty much define what equipment is best for you -

Regards
David

LoneRider · Post by **LoneRider** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:44 pm

cj7hawk wrote:
Gen1 isn't much use, but you can make your own cascade-tube spotter for around $200 to $300 which work very well, with or without extra IR.
Regards
David

gee,thanks

cj7hawk · Post by **cj7hawk** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 pm

LoneRider wrote:
cj7hawk wrote:
Gen1 isn't much use, but you can make your own cascade-tube spotter for around $200 to $300 which work very well, with or without extra IR.
Regards
David
gee,thanks

Now I feel bad. Let me requote that. Gen1 works OK at shorter ranges with lots of extra IR

But I am not really a fan of Gen1. I think it has it's place but a lot of the time I think people pay too much for it. It lacks gain compared to modern Gen2 or Gen3 and is like spotlighting with an invisible torch.

Gen has gain levels of around 300x or so while Gen3 typically has gain levels of around 30,000x and higher.

That's a pretty significant difference. It means you need about 1/2 moon or more for Gen1 to work effectively. Once you've tried Gen1 and Gen2/3 at the same time, it's difficult to go back to Gen1.

I think it still has it's place, but should be about half of what it usually costs.

Regards
David

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