WHY are we so far behind the US?

[PFC15]

How about 320 million people compared to Australia's 22 million......odds are that they will have one or two better shooters when you compare their 'easy' access to a range of rifle components, ammunition components, general equipment manufacturers and gunsmiths. Just look at barrel manufacturers for an example.......As for ranges, it largely depends on where you are, generally it is the West Coast and Central states that have the long ranges (pistol ranges and 100m ranges are everywhere across the country), but I would say that many areas are not serviced by a long ranges - you will need to drive 4-8 hours and you might get access a couple of times per month - (there are always exceptions). Having said that, every 10-20 miles you can find a gun shop that is well stocked and has plenty of range - at about half the price of Australia!

[a.JR]

Hi All , I personally don't think SRBR or F'class needs changing at all.. If you think you can bring only those principles to 1000yds and shoot small ,i think your going to be disappointed with the yearly averages
Rod, the major problem with the 6 br dasher on my home range is when you extend the time taken to put down a 10 shot group to around 20secs+ the wind effects will get ya .. At slightly less than 10 secs for a L/G you can find a hole most days but after that you need to have some wind bucking power and go with the best average condition trap because of the time frame.. It helps a good deal at home to have nothing tighter than a 10 in twist in the 10 shot arena also and leaves out the 6mms and 6.5s. I think the 6mm Dashers have their place at Belmont and Canberra because of what i have seen but can't offer any opinion on either Murray Bridge or Narromine , only ever seen the reports.. In my experience competitors only get as good as the opposition demands ,if the best shoots 8inch groups then thats probably where it ends up but if the best is shooting 4inch then the others get to see and hear how it's done and everything moves forward .. Especially in Townsville ,TZ and i pass on every bit of info we have to the ones that want to listen ,no money changes hands , i think the commercial side of things is necessary but a down side at the same time .. Naturally only IMO..JR..Jeff Rogers ..

Just an interesting thought could we outlaw short range and make all bechrest 500 and 1000yd only

Yep, make 100yds for rock throwing competitions only.

5/ using a 6br H/G on my range will not get you smiling

Jeff, you and Tony have proven that you need more horsepower than a 6BR at your range. I have never seen very easy conditions at Townsville the few times I have been there. I think Lower Light,Bendigo, Canberra, Belmont and Dubbo-Narromine fall into that catagory as well. In F class circles, these ranges are not known for being consistantly easy.

How do you think Australias BEST 1000yd Benchrest shooters would group if they had a few ranges to practice mid week and compete on weekends with the sort of conditions where 6BRs and 6 Dashers were breaking all the records like in some of the ranges I have seen overseas.
Do you think the gap would be bridged a bit more, first of all by more regular easier conditions, then by the fact that inherently accurate, easy to handle, quick to cycle little calibers could be used.

[Flash Gordon]

It seems to be a perception that we are short of ranges in Australia for 1,000 yards, when in fact we are short of shooters using ranges that are already there.

[Tony Z]

It has just been announced that Frank Weber has shot a new HG WR 6 match group aggregate of 5.0" at Williamsport. I don't have the details of the gun but maybe JR can fill in the blanks here. Next year should be a doosie with so many shooters going under 6 inch at mutiple ranges across the US.

[petevm]

Interesting comment from JR about twist rates etc when the conditions are tricky. I have just shot the ACT 1000 yd match in the worst conditions that any of us can recall. It was not far short of what would have forced cancelation of the match. High wind that was forever switching around and ranging from a full RH thru incoming to full LH. Shooting blind and as fast as I could get 10 shots away I managed the best HG group agg - a whopping 359mm (about 14.5"). Bloody huge but good enough on the day. As my 300 Ultra had died of old age I opted to take a 21lb HG (actually an 'F' Open rifle) and had no choice but to use it. Luckily all shots stayed on paper so the groups were valid (others were not so lucky). I opted to shoot basically a side wind as sighters had shown the incoming to be untrustworthy. Both groups were twice as high as they were deep as you would expect and indeed I came away thinking that the load was good. What was I using -hate to tell you it was a 6mm Dasher with 1 in 7 twist and 115gn .
Pete

[Deano 29]

Well done Pete on a great performance on both days. You couldn't have picked the weather if you went off Fridays, glourious weather one day and absolutely shit the next lol but that's how itgoes and it separates the men fromthe boys. Jason, yourself Dave and the lass with the light gun group ( sorry can't remember her name) shot incredibly well. Look forward to seeing you all at batemans bay.

Ps I achieved my goal of a fly patch and was stoked that I hit two On the same target, nothing wrong with the ol 308 f STD rifle

[petevm]

Errata -

Both groups were twice as WIDE as they were deep!

Pete

[Tony Z]

Gooday Pete, well done on the Fly and 1K matches.
As to your comment on twist rates in certain calibers. Two weekends ago it was similar conditions up here to what has been described you had this weekend gone. I wasn't there for the actual shoot, went away culling vermin on a property in the Cape, but drove by the range in the morning where i could see the fullbore flags horizontal and flicking the tips vertical. It apparently only got worse from there where no spotting discs could be seen through the mirage and each sighter shot had to be radioed in for each shooter. Only one LG got two records down. Glad i wasn't there to shoot in that. Anyway Jack S won the day in HG with a 92/95 score and a low 8 and 9 for group. The caliber was a 7 Redneck, 11 twist barrel and 162 Amax at around 3100 fps. This is the same combination that shot a pair of 5s last month when lent to a new shooter.

The point is that this particular rifle was originally set up with 5 barrels, all in the same cartridge and all using the 162 Amax which has clearly marked on the side of its box 1 in 8 inch twist rate. The barrels originally ranged from 8.5 through 10 twist. The slower the twist, the flatter the group became. So after slowing the bullets down 400 or 500 fps and still having them stable in the 10 twist, i ordered an 11 twist and set it up the same as the others. It shot a couple of 6 inch groups and then promptly ran out of quality bullets. So it sat in the locker for 9 years until sold to Jack a couple of months back. He then searched the country for a good batch of 162s to end up finding one great batch and another one even better. The best way to describe this rifle, with these bullets and this twist rate, is it defies logic. A wind that looks like it should shove it off the card shifts it barely a couple of inches.
I have seen every caliber and bullet at one time or another on our range and agree with Jeff, if the twist is fast, at some point you are going to get burnt with a vertical spread group. My own 6 BR which will on its day shoot small, will go vertical on the swirling fishtail or constant direction change that plagues our range. Some reckon it is the mounds of concrete the fullbore guys set down a few years back, but i am not entirely convinced of that yet.
The other point is that when the wind is across the range at 90 degrees, everything flattens out and it comes down to who runs the best bracket where the resultant groups are often a lot wider than they are high. The 90 degree wind on our range is the great equalizer and it is the one i prefer to shoot in, or as close to it as i can get as i know i have only speed to contend with and not a popped shot high or low out of the cluster. I personally don't think that a true cross wind is an issue, other than if it were to drop off and the shot would land on the neighbors sheet, it is the subtle changeable winds near the muzzle that screw around with the fast twist barrels. Unfortunately it is these winds that are predominant at our range.

The group below shows what is typical of our swirling and often fishtailing wind and was the second group shot last month with my 6 BR. It defines the frustration of using this little caliber where the picture says it all.

[a.JR]

Hi all , Well the last two years have given me a new prospective on what to use and what not to use at 1K bench .. Jeff H came along with a stock 270 Win and shot some 8inch groups(H/G) at home, this year at Williamsport a Frank Weber used a 6Dasher to lower the WR for 6 match averages to 5.03ins and young Jack Ss gun was used with a 162 Amax in an 11inch twist barrel to shoot a new low group average record for a day of 5.487ins .. None of which i would recommend to anyone ,especially and newcomer.. Can it be done ,history says damn straight ,if you are willing to put in the yards thats needed .. But it will not change my mind as to what i will use now and in the future because this year with my 13.5 twist barrel i have a 6 match of 5.748ins and even more pleasing to me is i have taken my best 10 target average under 7ins to a 6.961ins .. While probably flat out making it in the top 10 in the US i'm still happy that my slow twist combo has worked just fine in my neck of the woods..JR..Jeff Rogers ps interesting to see what the 2011 6 and 10 match aggs are at the other four ranges in OZ