Long Range, Technique, to aim off or not, fast or slow

[justjeff]

Guys,

Those of you who shoot the 500m or 1000Yd events, we have a windy morning tomorrow, what would you do? Shoot it as fast as you can in a window in conditions, or try to pick you way? Do you try to estimate a wind and aim off? Or just put the spot on the dot and let them rip?

Thoughts?

Jeff

P.S. It's hard work shooting a 7" group, then watching JR shoot 5" in the same condition.

[macca]

Hi Jeff,guess i'd be looking at what jr and tz were doing.
The other day we had variable winds.I machined gun one group and picked the other.Result two groups within an inch of each other.
Both work sometimes.
I will occasionally aim off but prefer to center and shoot on that wind.
Good luck with it.
cheers

[justjeff]

Well Macca,

I tried both today, but the one thing I should have done was set up the twin scope anti mirage system. If you weren't in the right detail, you really paid with the boil.

Jeff

[macca]

Well Macca,

I tried both today, but the one thing I should have done was set up the twin scope anti mirage system. If you weren't in the right detail, you really paid with the boil.

Jeff

And sometimes that is the difference in shooting.
Which method worked best?
You seemed to have some pretty good groups.
cheers

[justjeff]

Macca,

The first 3 groups were shoot with 200gr SMK, the last with a random load behind some new 208 Hornady match, more work to be done with them. The 2 sets of groups are actually listed in the results in reverse order, the hornady's being the 7". The 2" and 5" were run as fast as I could. the 3" was trying to pick it in the wind and mirage. The 2 and 3" groups were first detail, with variability in wind being the major factor in the 2", but mirage creeping in to the 3", and some twitchy winds. The 5" had conditions so bad in terms of boil and mirage that I just decided to trust to the gods and let it rip. The cards fell where they did.

I will say that there were a lot of 4 and 1 groups across the field, with shooters caught out with a sudden condition change,
hence the debate, fast or slow and pick.

Jeff

[a.JR]

Hi all. If shooting 1K bench over the last 10 years has proved anything to me that is that if you want to shoot small (under 7.5ins 10 shot) at the majority of the matchs you attend then you have to forget the score side of things and concentrate on groups .. That is unless you have a very forgiving range .. Most of the shooters in Aust have made it a quest to get as good as they can at the FLY ,i think that is a distinct disadvantage when trying to get good results at 1000yd bench .. I have since 2000 thought 1K was the bees knees and have spent more time and effort there.. A few years ago i decided to try to shoot score as well and this culminated in a 94.80 score agg for the 2010 season 10 match , but i think it was to the detriment of the group agg .. This year because of having barrel troubles i have reverted to canning the score side once more and just trying to get the thing to group and it's worked ,i have my best ever 6 match 5.914ins with more events coming .. The way i shoot groups is to find a bracket during the sighters that aligns with a set of flags i'm watchin that will hold long enough to get the 10 away , this is a lot harder to do when trying to centre it as well.. It also is a lot harder to do if you don't have the gear and the practice behind you to get those 10 away in less than 30 seconds .. I shoot fast all the time anywhere from 25 to 40 secs, this helps a bunch imo.. If your fast is 45 seconds to a minute then you won't find speed shooting any good ya on my range and probably most other ranges as well .. I think it's a big ask to find anymore than a few shooters world wide that can see a set of flags at this distance and pick a quarter minute of change in both vertical and windage everytime they sit down at the bench .. If you happy shooting 10 inch groups then there's lots of shooters that by pickin there way through can do that, but if ya want to shoot 5's and better then i can't find a way better than runnin them out the back door every match.. JR..Jeff Rogers.. pics of 2011 targets ,see i told ya i sucked at score this year

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[Deano 29]

a.JR quite a bit of really good advice and it is great to see a bloke with so much experienceand success passing on hard earned info. I myself went to my first 1k shoot at Canberra on the 31st with Macca and i have to say it is addictive. I have only shot F standard up to that day and i enjoyed it that much i have commissioned a new rifle from Mr Clancy. I had never realised the vast difference between F class and Benchrest untill that day. Shooting my f class rifle with 155 sierra's i shot a 15 and an 18inch group if i remember correctly and a 70 something score on both. It amazes me that you guys can get groups such as 4,5,6 inch groups with 10 shots. I will be a regular at the 1k from here on and would like to thank Macca and the Canberra club for making me feel welcome. Congrats on your perfomance so far and good luck with the remaining rounds.

Cheers

Deano

[Camel]

Mate I couldnt even see that far, let alone try groups and scores. Anyone who can do that has got my respect. By the way, nice toes

[justjeff]

JR,

Just wind in half a minute left, and half a minute up, and you won't suck at score. Interesting your groups are predominantly low and right. In the words of a not so famous politician, please explain?

Jeff

[a.JR]

Hi Jeff , In testing some years ago i found that when i thought i knew what was going on and held off the group just ended up strung across the target .. Then also i was pressed to get 10 away in less than 70 secs.. After private practice sessions that were available at the time i found when i just held the X and shot as best i could the horizontal was reduced in half .. This is because i sucked at reading the wind and i truely held in the wrong place.. When moving the group to the centre i find harder to get a read on a set of flags that will last as long as the predominant group flags are .. If i were to compete at a place like Missoula in the US i'm sure i would have a different plan because of the sheltered conditions .. A Mr Leo Anderson has this year set the 10 match group agg to 6.17ins with a 6 match of 5.0ins and is literally streets ahead of everyone in the rest of the world but i don't shoot in Montana .. I'm not sayin i'm right but talking to the guys in the states that shoot nothing else but 1K nearly every weekend of the season i am sure there are no pickers at the pointy end of the groups.. Naturally we a talkin about shooting the traditional method(Blind) because the States knows no other method ....JR.. Jeff Rogers

JR,

Just wind in half a minute left, and half a minute up, and you won't suck at score. Interesting your groups are predominantly low and right. In the words of a not so famous politician, please explain?

Jeff

[Brad Y]

Shot 800m f class on sunday in some pretty down right average conditions. Quote of the day was "if the brass aint flying then ya dying" Those who belted through the rounds did well, those who tried to pick the winds (like me) struggled.

[a.JR]

Hi all , There is a video of me shooting a group in Heavy Gun on YouTube ,just do a search there for *danielh66* and then JR.. Catches the last 6 shots from the 10 shot group.. Not true return to battery because you will see i still have to adjust between shots .. It could be faster but i have never found a way the get all ten away without adjustment.. JR..Jeff Rogers

[m12vlp]

From my time shooting F-Class I have learnt that it's one thing to know when to stop shooting because of a change to the flags but another to know when to start shooting again.
If you hold for a condition change that you have observed then you have to wait for someone else to shoot and observe their target before shooting again because you cannot really tell where it's going to end up. The flags just cannot tell you the wind to the accuracy required.

If I was shooting blind I would observe when the longest most stable condition is and then rocket them down in that time.

With F-Class being marked and not having the opportunity to wait for your favoured condition I feel that it's better to keep up the pace but not go to fast lest you upset your rifle setup and throw one through impatience. If you see a change wait and watch the others before jumping back in.

I won't hold off because I cannot accurately position my target dot crosshair on the target in any position other than the centre and I have precise adjustments to the adjustments get the nod.

[Rinso]

Well having tried it all one way or another I have found that the day determines what will work and sometimes being able to make that choice early ie run em or pick em can be the difference between winning and losing.
I have had good results both ways and terrible days both ways.
My advice trust your judgement and run what you think will work best in the conditions your presented and that may mean running one target and picking the next.
Practice and patience guys and you have more good days than bad.

[Ned Kelly]

G'Day all,
rinso +1
Ned