ExtraVision 3rd 1000yd BR International Postal Match Results

[justjeff]

Good try Deano,

We attempted to get something going along these lines a year or so ago, the silence from Brisbane was deafening, see, they run the Aus Shooting Games or whatever they called the event last month, and there is NO WAY they will let someone run an Australian Shooting Championship, might take away from their prestige event.

So here's a challenge to all the coordinators, get on and sort an Australian Championships Event out, don't come on here and give excuses, get it done, and don't even think of running it in the same venue each year, if it is to be, then move it around from state to state, and range to range.

All those shooters who say, it's too far to go, how serious are you?

I for one would be in, but it has to be an Australian Championship, and be recognised by all the participating clubs.

My two bob's worth.

Jeff

[BRT]

Yeah Deano, agree there mate.
As usual this degenerates rapidly out of hand and then the personal abuse comes out and the language also. Still doesn't change anything. I am sure Deon that if you want to get involved in 1,000 benchrest like say down at Canberra you will find the guys there all good, well organised and will have good fun. That is not to say that the ones out at Narrowmine do also. Looks like they are doing OK too. I just do not know now whether they are shooting the official approved rules though. But at the end of the day I am sure that you would like to know that if you go shooting at say Canberra you would expect that matches are organised and run to official rules and if you happen to shoot a record that it could be recognised as an Australian Record. If it was for a small group or and aggregate it matters not which system you choose to shoot your targets because YOU got the choice and the rules say that.

But on the other hand what was going on here is that some others, who obviously do not like the approved rules, have decided to "award" other records for a specific style of shooting they want to separate and they have been calling what they want as "Australian Records". Well they aint. I guess they figured if they keep promoting it as much maybe they will just automatically become Australian records one day. I don't know. But you know what? You cannot shoot an Australian record in any other form of shooting event in Australia unless the event and the record conform to whatever the approved rules are by the official association. Right?

So mate if you are down south there near Canberra head off to the Majura range and have some fun. Those guys do and they are poking along just fine. Hope you shoot a record yourself one day.

Stuart

[justjeff]

How like you Stuart. If you can't have the last word, then throw aspersions. You know, I'm not too sure that you guys down there shoot according to the rules either, and I know you don't have fun.

I know no such thing, I've never shot your range. How dare you come on here and question whether or not other ranges follow the rules, or have fun doing it for that matter, if you haven't been to those ranges and shot with the competitors.

Your claims regarding the adherance to the rules verge on the letigious, and you might wish to consider that before your next set of comments.

Jeff

[BRT]

Good try Deano,

We attempted to get something going along these lines a year or so ago, the silence from Brisbane was deafening, see, they run the Aus Shooting Games or whatever they called the event last month, and there is NO WAY they will let someone run an Australian Shooting Championship, might take away from their prestige event.

Jeff

Tell you what Jeff you come up with some corkers here.
The silence from Brisbane eh? Well being a member of that club I can tell you the co ordinator (not me) was asked to run an Australian Championships by some people (on this forum I guess) BUT they wanted all sorts of things to happen that were not in the rules. They wanted Blind and Marked shooting separated etc etc. They wanted to collect their own targets. They wanted their way. Yes that's it just like what happened years ago in Canberra. The visitors wanted to dictate terms. Well we had a couple of meetings about it here in Brisbane and I was at those and the decision was, basically "go jump". We will hold an Australian Championships to the approved rules whenever that will be. But there was no mood within the club to get very active about it currently because of that attitude from outside.
So the co-ordinator communicated that message back. So it wasn't "silence" at all.

Basically Jeff the "Hells Angels crowd" do not run things around 1,000 yard benchrest like they think they can. The vast majority out there are getting on with it and enjoying their sport. The division is on this forum. If your club wants to run official matches on an NRAA range then you use the official rules which are approved by them using the usual process. Just talking up some other methodology doesn't make it official.

Stuart

[Deano 29]

Would it be detrimental to have Marked and Blind operate seperately in terms of records or introduced as a "style" of Australian LRBR. I can see the indifference that the current rules has upon the brenchrest community as they are different "styles" of shooting. Having shot marked at my first event i was amazed at the confidence you have to have in a condition to "run" your shot off and trust your instincts whereas i did feel as though marked was alot like f class ( being all i have shot up to that point ) and having feedback as to what the conditions were doing to the flight of my bullet and the ability to centre my group ( in theory anyhow as it didnt loook that way on my target ) They are two very different "styles" in MY opinion.

I would love to to be on ONE range with all you guys and compete for the "Australian title", i would be in like flynn for sure. But i also believe that for a legitimate winner, they need to be competeing under the same "style". I dont see it as a major obstical to have seperate "styles" as everyone has the option to choose and you compete against people who have the same decision.

I also know that rules are needed to operate any event in any sport, but i aslo believe that all competitors need to have an input and a vote to remove the chance for the situation we have now.


Lastly i would be happy to pay extra if it meant i got to keep my target after each detail just like in FLY shooting. Its nice to sit back with a smile and a stubby and relive the mooments we all aim for, and have a bit of a brag to ya mates

[Leeroy]

Good try Deano,
We attempted to get something going along these lines a year or so ago, the silence from Brisbane was deafening, see, they run the Aus Shooting Games or whatever they called the event last month, and there is NO WAY they will let someone run an Australian Shooting Championship, might take away from their prestige event.

Jeff

I was going to stay out of this little shit fight till i had some more time to consider my position, but frankly Jeff what the f@%k you smokin mate?

Silence from Brisbane? I said it to Alan Neilson privatly then and i will now say it publicly on here.. As the new co-ordinator in Brisbane I would never have felt confident running a true "National match". I simply didn't have the experience in organising and running big official matches. More importantly the club also felt that our range setup and procedures were not realy up to the standard required for a national match. Simple as that..
It was also the general consensus between the three club co-ordinators that 1K BR originated Canberra and it should be Canberra that hosts the first true national match. The co-ordinator at Canberra at the time also felt unable to host a national match and that is where the communication ended..

To imply that brisbane is somehow holding up the running of a Nation match is a giant load of horse shit.

Perhaps YOU would like to stop whining about the lack of a national match and help host one your self?

Oh thats right, i forgot, you only have two benches...

Right now i see no point in even attempting a nation match.. You blokes can't seem to stop arguing long enough to fire a single shot, let alone a whole match.

Now that i have the organisation of two feature matches under my belt and our systems and procedures pretty well sorted out we would at least in spirit be able to host a national match.
One thing i can tell you all is that if Brisbane do run such a match in the future it will be run in accordance with the AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL RULES sanctioned by the NRAA.

Post edited to correct addressing the wrong person..
Cheers
Leeroy

[justjeff]

Stuart,

Where in the rules does it say that a blind shooter can't have his target? Too much to ask? Seems petty. I for one prefer to have my targets without sighter pegs rammed through the bullet holes.

Leeroy, as I said, and the forum history bears it out, the silence was deafening, you might have talked about it down there, but you didn't communicate it to the wider shooting community. And as for having only 2 benches, Leeroy, you are blinding me with your ignorance, you haven't been here, if you had, you would know we have more than that.

It would be interesting to get a chronicle of events dating back to 2004 or before showing just how many communications were made to the wider shooting community about the changes made from the blind (IBS) system of shooting, to the current mess. I'm sure that there would be some surprising twists and turns executed by various parties to ensure that their way was the only one heard.

Jeff

[Ackley Improved]

I am happy with the rules... just need records for marked and records for blind. Easy as that. You cant compare them... they are shot differently.

In my mind, and I know many other shooters too, the record they care about is the blind record. Nothing against Richard for the 2" group... that is fantastic.

I do not care if the rules do not distinguish between the two classes. I do think it was an oversight and it should be changed.

For myself, Blind is where it is at!!!

Cheers

[Leeroy]

Stuart,
Where in the rules does it say that a blind shooter can't have his target? Too much to ask? Seems petty. I for one prefer to have my targets without sighter pegs rammed through the bullet holes.
Jeff

No where.. We don't give out targets because no one in our club wants them. It's that simple. If they wanted them and were prepaired to put in the work involved in facilitating take home targets then they can have them no problems.

Leeroy, as I said, and the forum history bears it out, the silence was deafening, you might have talked about it down there, but you didn't communicate it to the wider shooting community. And as for having only 2 benches, Leeroy, you are blinding me with your ignorance, you haven't been here, if you had, you would know we have more than that.
Jeff

It was all layed out and communicated privatly to Alan Neilson and Dave Groves (Canberra). It was the opinion of all three co-ordinators to keep the discusstion private between us until something could be thrashed out. It was thrashed out and was concluded that no one was in a position to even hold a match. I sudgest you talk to Alan about what was said. The debate over who should host nationals and where does not belong on an open forum. The contence of this thread is proof that open online debate does not work.
I still beleive that a compromise could be reached for a nationals to go ahead. Perhaps it's time for the co-ordinators to get in touch again..


As for the number of benches. My humble apoligies.. It must be three or four benches now?

Cheers
Leeroy

[john mc]

Hello Deano I am like you
I like to take my targets home so i can check my results and record the date and conditions that it was shot in
it helps to show me where i went wrong --- much better than a photo or trying to remember all the details
the extra cost of the targets could be added to the nominations and i am sure that most shooters would have no problems with that
i have seen many a trophy room wall decorated with great targets that the proud owners can show their visitors
I am realy sure that if you shot an Australian record group or score you would like to have that target on your wall
and like Leeroy said there is no real reason why we can't have them to take home
john mc

[Deano 29]

Hi John,

I know that any group i shoot i would love to be able to take them home and put them on the wall of fame ( or shame ) which ever it may be. I am more than happy to pay the extra cost. It would be nice to see the progression from target to target and evaluate if i can improve on certain areas and to simply brag about that group i shot at a 1000y....yes a 1000y's lol. even on a bad day i can still walk away smiling......and maybe some day actually get a smiley for my efforts

Deano

[BRT]

Stuart,

Where in the rules does it say that a blind shooter can't have his target? Too much to ask? Seems petty. I for one prefer to have my targets without sighter pegs rammed through the bullet holes.

Jeff

Understand that but some clubs (like Brisbane) prefer to glue the targets on. That way at least they are flat, don't wrinkle up or run the risk of coming off, flapping etc. More importantly it saves time. Sure it's always a toss up between what is easy to organise and and what the majority of shooters want. This can be changed as the rule allows of course. Its up to each club and they can change so yes its possible to procedure for a Nationals etc.

Here is what the rule says,

22.6.5 Posting of targets
(a) Host Clubs can determine their own procedure about whether
individual record targets will be returned to competitors or not. Subject
to how the targets are constructed, the targets can either be patched
out to be re-used again or returned to each competitor.

Stuart

[Tony Z]

Compromise my arse. It would take a capitulation, boycott or possible exclusion of Townsville to get the Nationals thing rolling.
No-one in Brisbane wants take home targets? That really comes as no surprise as some of you guys should be selling the carbon tax for Julia.

With all this talk of the legitimacy of Richards group and some sort of quest to make it the only record worth recognizing in Australia, whilst denouncing all others, its going to be funny as fuck when another one of you no take home target and marked devotees jags another group and sits five under the inch at 1K. That is going to be a masterpiece of photoshopping to sell that one to the world. While it may be the smallest mark ever shot anywhere, it wouldnt be worth the little white patches it shot through.

[Leeroy]

Compromise my arse. It would take a capitulation, boycott or possible exclusion of Townsville to get the Nationals thing rolling.

Well with an attitude like yours, your right, it will never happen..

No-one in Brisbane wants take home targets? That really comes as no surprise as some of you guys should be selling the carbon tax for Julia.

Personal insults are a sure sign you have run out of valid arguments.

With all this talk of the legitimacy of Richards group and some sort of quest to make it the only record worth recognizing in Australia, whilst denouncing all others, its going to be funny as fuck when another one of you no take home target and marked devotees jags another group and sits five under the inch at 1K. That is going to be a masterpiece of photoshopping to sell that one to the world. While it may be the smallest mark ever shot anywhere, it wouldnt be worth the little white patches it shot through.

It'll only be worth nothing to you Tony. Sounds more like sour grapes to me mate...

Cheers
Leeroy

[Wookie]

Canberra made the decision to save money and stop the "take home" target habit. When you only have a couple of benches it is OK but we have 10 now at the 1000 yard mound and it just makes more sense and makes the day run smoother.

With all this talk of the legitimacy of Richards group and some sort of quest to make it the only record worth recognizing in Australia, whilst denouncing all others, its going to be funny as fuck when another one of you no take home target and marked devotees jags another group and sits five under the inch at 1K. That is going to be a masterpiece of photoshopping to sell that one to the world. While it may be the smallest mark ever shot anywhere, it wouldnt be worth the little white patches it shot through.

And Tony, as I said before, this is not a schoolyard, swearing and bullying do not work on me. If you want to be taken serious please act appropriately otherwise I will have to agree that you have a big case of sour grapes.

Scheduling will always be hard for Canberra because we run a full shooting programme for a range a disciplines across the year. We also have this thing called "winter" that makes people north of Sydney scared to come!