Which Rifles - Can you please Help me with some advice?

[trevort]

Travis, some moron let me have a go at clays and I actually hit a few of the bloody things. Now I really want a 12 g and the one you bought is what i have had recommended. I'll give you a call.

As for the OP, 12g, forget 410.

would they let you have a 17fireball or 221 fireball? you will be able to hit rabbits from one end of the property to the other!!

[MISSED]

Well here goes but my suggestions would be=

A Zastava 22 Hornet this is a very resonable priced rifle in a calibre that will surprise you in both accuracy and knock em over power.

An AYA Side x Side 12 gauge shotgun, again well priced and the couple of have played with have been a pleasure to use.

These 2 firearms should cover most of your needs.Then when the bug bites ask us again and I am sure we can spend copious amounts of your hard earned

[Brad Y]

Nope you wont get a 204 or a 221 or 17FB either. This is WA fellas, its like trying to get away with lead bullets in california at times.

Agree what has been said. 22lr is probably too light for stock destruction but I would have no probs up close with the 22 hornet. A zastava as missed recommended isnt a bad idea.

12g as said is going to do you perfect.

The hornet will do everything a 17hmr can and more with its heavier bullets. Local prices for 22 hornet is around $50 for 50. They arent cheap but you can reload them. Highland ammo is $20 for 20. HMR ammo is pretty much half that price but you cant reload it. Thats why I suggest getting a 22lr as well as it will be a good bunny and knockabout gun to have for cheap shooting.

If you get a chance mate, head down to the store here in Busso and have a chat with Brian. He is a farmer himself and is pretty well up to speed. Gary the proprietor and Matt who is a commercial roo culler are good to talk to as well and are all pretty down to earth. There are a few rifles in stock that you should be able to look at, ammo and hunting gear etc. Im in there most afternoons and saturday mornings as well.

If you do head down send me a pm as Im more than willing to help further. Like I said we made do on the dairy farm with a hornet, 22lr and 12g for years.

[Dancing Bears]

Brad,

so, 1. a .22LR as a general utility that is inexpensive to run (still really like the t bolt for this). I dont plan to reload at the moment though I have a friend who would probably do it for me if I asked - why do some many things in Australia cost "about a carton"? God I love this country! Question: Why would you want to reload ammunition that is so cheap to buy off the shelf?
2. 30/30 (with scope) for the longer range fox/pig shots as well as occasional stock destruction duties (won't be doing as much shooting with this so the higher ammo cost not such an issue). Could still use the flat nose projectiles for destruction and balistic tips for "hunting" at range
3. 12g to cover the bases for anything else

I understand that the .22 & 12g combo works OK for most situations, however it seems to leave a bit of a gap "in the middle" - or more precisely 80m+. Longer range shots at anything would be a problem, and .22LR might struggle with the pigs. Very close range is also a problem when destroying stock or with pigs as you have already pointed out.

My only reservation with the .22LR is that if I decide to go down the 30/30 road for a big bore/low power to cover this middle ground, should I therefore shift to the smaller, more accurate, farther reach 17HMR round. I know they are more expensive than .22LR but at 17cents or so don't think it is ever likely to become an serious financial issue.

If I were only able to have 2 firearms then there is probably a stronger arguement for the 30/30 & 17HMR/.22LR rather than the 12 guage, though this of course would cover all of the bases very well (for now at least).

Where abouts is the shop in Busselton? - i go through there once a week so should be easy for me to call in and see them. At the moment all advice is welcome and appreciated, though of course this comes at the risk of completely confusing me. I suppose that's the risk you take when you ask other people what they think ...

Would also love to stop and say G'Day to you at some stage as well.

Cheers,

DB

[Brad Y]

Its late and im a bit confused by the last post but bear with me.

22lr is a rimfire calibre. Ammo is about $6.50 for subsonic (not noisy) and about $7-8 for hyper velocity. Both are per 50 rounds. You cant reload them, they are a shoot once and thats it sort of thing. Subs are effective to about 50m, hyper velocity to about 75m. Browing T bolt will be a very nice rifle. Will be ok for rabbits and cats and foxes within those ranges. You wouldnt rely on it to put down livestock unless you had nothing else and you were at point blank range with hyper velocity ammo.

22 hornet is a small centrefire calibre. In my opinion they have an effective range of about 150m. Suitable for foxes, cats, and rabbits out to that range. Pigs you will be able to shoot as well but make sure you place the shots well and dont shoot them too far out. Ammo $50 for 50 and you can reload them after the first firing. Would be fine to destroy livestock with it again up close.

The shotgun i believe isnt always necessary. Its good for hunting rabbits and up close foxes and cats but I find it rare to get that close to them unless your whistling them in. They are handy to have around for close range and on the run shooting on moving targets.

As to the 30/30, I still dont see thier place as a general hunting calibre. Possibly because Ive never seen one in a bolt action but ive seen plenty that are lever guns and arent what I would call "fox at 200m accurate" but that is just me.

If I could only choose two, it would be the 22lr and 22 hornet. Can always go up to a 30/30 later if the pigs become a problem. That seems to be hunting, there is usually a lean towards bigger and better things!

Let me know when you come through and I will come round to the shop and explain it to ya.

[Dancing Bears]

Brad,

The 30/30 seems likely accurate enough - check out this review from respected author Chuck Hawks and Bryce Towsley:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/marlin336XLR.htm
http://www.americanrifleman.org/videos/ ... lr-review/

The american's still seem to use this cal for deer hunting

I agree the .22 Hornet does seem to do most things pretty well and would seem a good proposition if I had to chose just 1 rifle. But why have just one when you can have two? Sorry - I know you are trying to help ...

At $1 per round its the same price as the balistic tip 30/30 so would have to reload the .22 Hornet if this was to become the utility firearm. The 17HMR & 30/30 combo gives me the option of using off the shelf ammo where the 17HMR is cheap enough to shoot all day with.

Check out the reviews and let me know what you think, and definately going to call in and see the guys at Busso.

Cheers

DB

[17hmr]

db, where abouts are you getting your prices for in regards to ammo? last time i bought ammo i payed $30 for a box of 50 17hmr rounds which is 60cents a round. and 30-30 was at $28 for 20rounds which is $1.40. either way not 'cheap' shooting in respects to a .22lr. what ever you decide for the second rifle make sure you get a .22lr to start. grab a brick, and start shooting.

[Dancing Bears]

17HMR (and others),

I cam across this the other day:

http://www.langseeds.com.au/guns-a-ammunition

Federal 17HMR 17g or 20g x 1000 @ $177.81 (including GST)
Federal 30-30 Win 150gr FN Powershok x 100 @ $87.55 (including GST)

Some of the other prices seem pretty sharp too. Note that it seems to be an opening special for June and July only.

Who's for a quick trip to SA boys?

DB

[Brad Y]

You will have trouble getting ammo anywhere but from WA. Unless you can get it across the border without the police knowing but im not going into that

I read those reviews and what stuck in my mind is that they rate the 30-30 for deer hunting. There arent any deer (well not enough) in WA. 1 and 3/4 inches at 105 yards isnt the sort of accuracy i would look at either. Thats enough to miss cats and foxes out past 150. Hell I can miss them when my guns shoot half inch groups at 100.

I will say definitely get a 22lr. The 17hmr or hornet you can possibly debate about. 30-30 is your choice if you want something big to deal with pigs and livestock.

Come into the shop sometime and have a look. Theres also sportsmarine in victoria st bunbury but ive never shopped there.

[Dancing Bears]

Brad,

Sportsmarine in Bunbury are the people that gave me the original advice - Mike I think it was.

I agree that the 30/30 could be added at a later point as required, though it seemed to me such a long and complicated process it was preferable to get them all at once.

I agree that whether I end up with a .22 Hormet, .22 MAG, 30/30 or 17MHR the .22LR will always be a handy little rifle to have around, though would certainly mean that I would need to acquire at least one of the aforementioned at a later stage.

If I take you meaning then it is against the law to transport ammunition or firearms across state borders?

DB

[Dr G]

I cam across this the other day:

http://www.langseeds.com.au/guns-a-ammunition
Who's for a quick trip to SA boys?

DB

Thats near where I grew up, I might get dad to swing in and grab some 17HMR and Subbies as its not to bad a price. Thanks DB

Dr G

[James270]

For a farm shotgun my pick would be the Miroku Mk70, Knackers has one and it really impressed me. Since then I have had a look at a couple more and I still like them.

The MK70's are a good gun and I may have one for sale if you are interested

[Dancing Bears]

James270,

That sounds interesting - happy to talk to yoy about this off line. Can email you if you like for private chat? Please foregive me but I'm still trying to get my head around how I would go about purchasing and then transporting a firearm across state boarders. Can you explain how does this work? I have only a little knowldege of the Miruko so will do a bit of homework in the meantime.

Do you have any other thoughts or advice to offer on the smaller calibres?

Thanks,

DB

[Dancing Bears]

Dr G,

You mentioned your mate has a 30/30 that they use for stock destruction duties as I have described.

Would you mind elaborating slightly for me? what make/model does he use and any probelms or pitfalls with this?

I note that you list a 45/70 on your signature line. I'm still doing lots of reading so curious as to what exact firearm you have and whether this calibre is also used as at short range for the same type of purpose? Apparently they have huge recoil?

Good luck with the cheap ammo,

DB

[Dr G]

Dr G,

You mentioned your mate has a 30/30 that they use for stock destruction duties as I have described.

Would you mind elaborating slightly for me? what make/model does he use and any probelms or pitfalls with this?

He uses a Marlin lever action cant remember the exact model but it is one with a shorter barrel. The advantage is being able to stand back a bit and aim for the right point in the animals head. the softer projectile and lower velocity means it is less likely to leave the body of the animal but it is big enough to destroy the base of the brain top of the spine area resulting in the animal flopping to the ground on the spot. I use solids from a 12g for the same purpose. My sister is a vet nurse for a prominent horse vet and he also prefers either a solid from a 12g or a cast 30-30 for destroying horses as the chemical options take about 20-30min to work and cause undue stress on the animal. You can use smaller calibres but the chance of a slightly misplaced shot causing a wound rather than instantaneous death increases.

I note that you list a 45/70 on your signature line. I'm still doing lots of reading so curious as to what exact firearm you have and whether this calibre is also used as at short range for the same type of purpose? Apparently they have huge recoil?

Yes mate its a Marlin 1895. Actually its a "Remlin" one of the newer ones made after Remington purchased Marlin and not nearly as good as the older proper marlins. This one is fine except the front sight mounting screw hole was tapped out of square and so I have had to have a gunsmith mate of mine drill and tap a new hole to get it to sight in properly. I could have sent it back on warranty but I trust my smith, i dont trust raytrade.

It would also do the job but would be slight overkill for what you have described. The recoil is light with factory loads. My reloads however do kick a bit. I am shooting 405gn projectiles at 1900fps compares to 1350fps for the factories. Its hard to compare recoil, I have a 30-06 in a light weight Tikka T3 Hunter that kicks harder than trevort's 300wsm, I have a 280AI with a heavier barrel and wood stock that kicks less than my old remington sps in 223. In theory it should be hitting as hard as my 30-06. Felt recoil will vary from rifle to rifle. I dont find the recoil of the 45/70 that bad but it does kick harder than my 30-06. To be fair I have destroyed my front rest bag after the recoil and sling swivel combined to tear a hole in it

I guess what I am saying is they kick but nowhere near some other calibres. It is also lots of fun to shoot.

Dr G