Rimfire accuracy

[chris.tyne]

Ok here's one for all the rimfire fanatics......myself included and also the CF blokes,what do you feel will be the next big accuracy advancement in rimfire accuracy?.
Considering we have at the moment muzzle tuners,mid barrel tuners,MI barrels,6 o'clock/12 o;clock F/P strike and when Stiller releases the Copperhead action we will have the choice of either or both at the same time like the Time actions,we have mid locking lugs,rear locking lugs,also modular type actions such as the Bleikers............so what will be next?
I still feel that the ammo manufacturers have a very big play in all this and that better is yet to come from them for sure....................................but at what cost!!!!,what say you.


Regards Chris.

[Tony Z]

Chris, the ammo has been and always will be the limiting factor.

Back in the late 90s, Federal tested an ammo that they developed that would produce consistent sub half inch accuracy at 100 yards. They made a projectile specifically for it, procured a powder that gave close to 100% load density and played around with other options like a filler wad that protected the bullets base. It never saw production because at that time it would have had to retail at over $30 US a packet and they felt no-one would pay $20+ more than what was available at that time, like Eley BR50, Gold and Midas etc, all at under $10 US. Not much later, Fedreal dumped everything and cited the match ammo a production loss.
To this day i have never seen anything as consistent as the Federal 900 A or B or the 1080. That million dollar junk from Lapua is nowhere near as good as what 900A was, even its worst batch numbers.

[chris.tyne]

Tony what about these tensioned barrels,seeing as harmonics play a part in all this can they work?,have you tried one.I agree that the ammo manufacturers hold the biggest part of this puzzle and like mentioned if it was available who could afford it.




Regards Chris.

[native hunter]

Chris,
you are a bad man.!!!
The next best thing in rimfire accuracy advancement.??
Well if you ask bill its definitely 6 FP, but that is yet to be proven.
I cant wait to see what happens in another year when the prediction is un founded, but then I suppose the action manufacturer and bill would have already made their money.!!
I tend to agree with Tony,the ammo is the deciding factor, does not matter how good the rifle or the shooter is, If the fodder aint good chewin it aint gonna shoot.!!
Regards
Native

[chris.tyne]

Hey Damien,well I will make an admission and it is that I could very well have been wrong about something that I have claimed to be a waste of time for quiet some time.
I will start with I got a mate who has a well built,accurate rifle that shot well when he got it but didn't make me feel like rushing out and getting one cause for the money wasn't miles ahead of what I had.Well he started to..................wait for it..................weigh his ammo ,well I have said that it isn't worth the trouble,your wasting your time etc buuuuuuuuuut in his rifle under varying conditions I have no hesitation in saying that it has made a difference.
When I tried weighing ammo I was using a balance scale not an electric one and it does seem easier using a digital scale,wether you think it's worth it is up to you but I am going to get a good set of scales in the near future and try it for mysef again.
Damien the firing pin is a hard one to prove/disprove and you may find that the 6 O;clock will seem to start winning and the sheeple..........................me included will follow,now the winning thing to start with is what some may say a very good ploy to achieve,give good rifles to good shooters and thats what usually happens.
As Tony,youself and I agree,at the end of the day the ammo plays a big part BUT you cant skimp on a rifle build.



Regards Chris.

[native hunter]

Chris,
I too weighed and rim gauged ammo and to tell the truth I didnt think it made a hell of alot of difference, but that was eley match and Looking back now i was shooting at the top of the club, then I changed barrels and the results were better so I never re-visited the ammo prep show.!!
maybe I should.??
I assume it would be waste of time with say,Tenex,X-act & R-50.
But if it alleviated one poor round then it would be worth it.
I do believe rimfire is a big psychological game also,If you prep well and feel confident(Even cocky) sometimes you usually do well,But if you think somethings not right it usually reflects in your scores.!!
I always was under the impression that money cannot buy results but im begginning to think it can get you some of the way there, ie- excellent rifle ,top notch ammo,top of the line rest and lots of dollars spent on practising with the ammo you intend to shoot with all the time will get results.
Regards
Native

[220]

Anyone tried this

"OLIMP .22 TARGET AMMO. This is claimed to be the most accurate .22 ammo available today, manufactured in Russia to the most accurate & consistent standards, the rear of the cartridge has a depression in the centre to allow for more consistent priming see photo 2, the projectiles are uniform in size and weight, this is the ammunition used by the Russian shooting team in the Olympic Games, packed in a hard pack so cartridges don't touch each other ."

At $42.00/50 it would want to shoot.

here is a link about ammo is about the 10th item down the page
http://home.winsoft.net.au/gazza/ACCESSORIES.htm

[Brett33]

Shoot me down in flames if you like but the next step in accuracy is ignition, be it the Coper head or the dozen or so Falcons that are on their way.
Now I am not saying 6'oclock, If I could get a 12 Turbo bare action into Australia I would.
Our options are a factory prone rifle (read extreemly short lock time and fast firing pin) or the only custom action available the Hall. I have at least 5 hours invested in improving my Hall ignition and I am buying a Falcon to take that worry out of the equation. I got 6 ignition because it can not hurt. The Turbo and new USA bench rest actions have a slow lock time, big heavy slow firing pin and produce better ignition.

Not certain how many but other then Broughton 5c and Shelien Ratchet barrels are in australia but I do not think there are many new generation MI barrels in Australia. We have a bunch of Broughton 4c's on order, I also have a Rock creek Medford, and a Shelien Octagon on order. If my Falcon shoots will it be because of the better ignition or a better barrel, who knows but as long as it shoots I will be happy.

But Ammo is key, its amazing to watch the cycles on the winners list people go up with good ammo, then back down with poor ammo, I could guess some names that this has affected but I won't.

Brett

[native hunter]

Brett,
"As long as it shoots ,Im happy".!! Thats the winner right there.
I wonder where all this rimfire Accuracy will come too.??
What is it that everyone is looking for or wanting.??
Do we want to shoot .000 groups consistently,Not ever going to happen.!!
At what point does one say ,Well thats as good as it gets.??
Its definitely going to come down to the ammo.
If I remember rightly that the article on 6br has friedreich(spelling) shooting 5x5 groups all going under the .100 mark.(may stand corrected)Thats with Eley Tenex a few years ago, how much better does it get,not many shooters around who could drive a gun that consistently well.
Im sure in years to come we will all still be chasing what we perceive to be the better action, barrel and definitely ammo.
Regards
native

[chris.tyne]

Damien the way I look at it is like this,when shooting at club level and this depends how many compete at your club you can bash them every month or when ever the comp is but and a big but when you want to expand and step up a level this can be mighty different.
I like many have shot itty bitty teeny groups and some consectutively whilst practising but when it comes to registered comp you have five details at each distance (group) and come what may,as much as I want the tiny group that I shot the weekend before ....
...........................it just doesn't seem to happen.
I definately agree about the confidence/psychological side of the equasion and is why I try and leave no stone unturned(good or bad) but every now and then when you have the devil may care attitude the results come...........................who knows,or at least it happens to me on the rare occassion.
Good consistent ignition is a must wether it be via a heavy spring and light pin or vice versa,F/P strike well the jury is still out on that one........................cept for Bill Calfee which leaves the ammuntition.............Ahhh the ammo,the holy grail of rimfire,it seems most of us are in the same boat with that one,buy then test,buy then test......................does it get any better........nope.


Regards Chris.

[native hunter]

Chris,
I agree with you on the home club shoots and thats why I get out and shoot at as many other club and comp shoots I can get to. Ive done well at some and choked at others.
On the note of Brett about ammo causing a shooter to rise and fall, I experienced it first hand at the QLD TRA Cup shoot,I shot RWS R-50 on the first day and dropped three targets all day and ran out of that ammo and shot Eley Match the next day and, well you know what happened.!!
Ive never shot a registered group shoot but practiced plenty, like you say,my first registered group shoot will more than likely be a disaster, but hey at least I will be there,doin what I like .!!
Regards
Native
OH- Almost forgot,Brett you are the only person I know who has shot Olimp-R, would you mind letting us know how it performed.??

[Brett33]

Native, my mum always said if you do not have something nice to say, say nothing so I was not going to comment on the ammo, but you have called me out.
Ron is the man conected to Olimp R see some of his test results here.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11554&p=115587#p115587
its in the Maddco barrels thread.
I have simular results, it does not seem to suit my rifle, but I am really struggling with ammo / tune / ignition at the moment, I have thrown more 8's in the past month then the rest of my 3 years of 22 rf BR together, shit I shot a 7 in comp on the weekend, if I do that is Brisbane I will only be there to catch up with friends.
Brett

[native hunter]

Brett,
I will give it a miss going by that then,pretty expensive just to try.
Oh dear, a 7 thats not a good thing to have in your mind two weeks out from the nationals, im sure you will be up in the top ranks.
Regards
Damien

[Brett33]

If the waether turns fowl, I am in with a chance as it takes some of the ammo factor out of it, if its clam and people shooting 250's I will struggle.
I tested again this afternnon and went to my Brisbane ammo and it shot ok, not the 0.2 CTC I demand but good enough to hold the 10 ring. Some black Eley I have will also make the trip, it is shooting well.
As with all these major shoots it the nerves that beat you, in the past I have always dropped too many points on the first card and played catch up from there, aim is to stay in the game from the start and come home strong.

Brett

[SnipeWench]

I'm down here in Geelong for the TRA Nationals, and I batched my X-Act by weight. Why? Well, it's a _National_ tournament, and I don't want to lose by 1 point.

Out of about 9 boxes of X-Act, 6 were 51.5gn, 1.9 were 51.6gn, 1 was 51.4gn, and the last was a mix up to 51.8. So I'll be shooting all my cards with the one batch

Consistency rules the day...