G"Day All,
Wondering why the prospective members for an Australian team/s are only chosen at 1 or 2 shoots a year at certain locations.??
Surely there are shooters out there, that are unable for some reason to make these shoots that have been blowing the roof of their club shoots but dont have the time or finances to make a qualifying shoot.!!
Are these positions only reserved for those that have the lifestyle to match.
Is this sport for the more fortunate or are we dismissing the talent of the less fortunate.??
Its not merit thats getting shooters in these squads but their ability to travel.!!!
Dont get me wrong theres lots of shooters that thoroughly deserve their spots but theres a few out there that never get a shot at it because of circumstances.
Regards
native
Why is this so.??
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native hunter
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Rinso
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Re: Why is this so.??
Native,
1st yes thats generally how it works ie certain matches count to qualifying (often many more than 1 or 2 per year) and yes some folks miss out because they dont get to those matches.
The otherside of that is, if you really want to make the team then you really need to make the effort and get to qualifying matches. You dont have to stay in 5 star accomodation, you can drive and camp and save the dollars plenty do, most ranges allow some form of camping.
Bottom line make a choice and make the effort, if you want the position bad enough you will get there
1st yes thats generally how it works ie certain matches count to qualifying (often many more than 1 or 2 per year) and yes some folks miss out because they dont get to those matches.
The otherside of that is, if you really want to make the team then you really need to make the effort and get to qualifying matches. You dont have to stay in 5 star accomodation, you can drive and camp and save the dollars plenty do, most ranges allow some form of camping.
Bottom line make a choice and make the effort, if you want the position bad enough you will get there
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lowndsie
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Re: Why is this so.??
I guess being a top shot is not all it takes to be on the team. They'd want to see determination and commitment which would be shown through people making sacrifices to get to venue's etc.
But I agree that many talented people in life are hindered through some sort of limitations beyond their control. I guess it's just the way thing's work.
But I agree that many talented people in life are hindered through some sort of limitations beyond their control. I guess it's just the way thing's work.
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SnipeWench
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Re: Why is this so.??
I'm one of the shooters on the team you're likely referring to, and yes I too had some issues with the selection process being used to select the shooters. I think I was the last shooter called up.
I think it's not an unreasonable call to select shooters based on their performance at National titles. You attend a Nationals event, you're guaranteed to be competing against shooters from around the country, who are often also the best shooters in the country. If you win the event, then you'd be considered the best of the best, no? If someone were sitting at home thinking they're the best of the best, but didn't compete at the Nationals, they may indeed be the best of the best, but that fact is not backed up by evidence that they truly are the best of the best.
You want to take the best of the best to a Worlds event, yes?
I've suggested to the selectors that the process should have included a scaling factor, whereby the Nationals just completed = 100% of score, the Nationals 1 year previous = 75% of score, and Nationals of 2 years previous = 50% of score. Yeah the current process is flawed towards those who attended prior Nationals, but that was the selection process at the time. I believe they're thinking of modifying this slightly, thus my comments above.
I was a long way down the list of competitors for selection, and only made it into the team because people called up prior had decided not to go to the Worlds, and that I decided I really wanted to get there and thus made the commitment and effort to get up to Brisbane. That said, I came 6th overall out of 55 competitors at the 2010 RBA Nationals, and ended up something like 32nd or so on the list. Why? Because people before me had competed in two or three Nationals events, I'd only competed in one. I was too late to get a higher listing, because I'd only just started shooting benchrest when the 2009 RBA Nationals were held in Sydney (the 2010 Nationals were held in Brisbane - and that RBA Nationals was my second ever attempt at shooting RBA
).
It's also a fair assumption that those shooters keen enough to seek selection to a Worlds team would travel to whatever events are required in order to be selected, even if those events were two states away. Do you know what is required to be selected to a Commonwealth Games/Olympic shooting team? A lot of effort, a _lot_ of shooting, and a lot of travelling around Australia competing in the various AISL shooting events. Selection certainly wouldn't be gained purely on performance at club level.
Ya just have to get out there and compete against shooters from other states and territories, and sometimes even internationally. If that costs money, then go on a sponsorship drive to get some backing, get a loan from the bank, or what not, or decide that shooting at that level is not for you.
Unfortunately, we're all amateurs, and there's little backing from government until you get to the top level of internationally recognised disciplines.
I see shooting at State, National and Worlds level a real test of abilities. But don't forget, it's not just about the shooting, but the camaraderie of the shooters during and afterwards too.
For me, selection into the Australian Shooting Team heading over to the US was a lifetime achievement. I worked hard to get that selection, and it cost me a lot of money. As my (ex-sniper) uncle said to me afterwards, "you've obviously found your calling in life".
I think it's not an unreasonable call to select shooters based on their performance at National titles. You attend a Nationals event, you're guaranteed to be competing against shooters from around the country, who are often also the best shooters in the country. If you win the event, then you'd be considered the best of the best, no? If someone were sitting at home thinking they're the best of the best, but didn't compete at the Nationals, they may indeed be the best of the best, but that fact is not backed up by evidence that they truly are the best of the best.
You want to take the best of the best to a Worlds event, yes?
I've suggested to the selectors that the process should have included a scaling factor, whereby the Nationals just completed = 100% of score, the Nationals 1 year previous = 75% of score, and Nationals of 2 years previous = 50% of score. Yeah the current process is flawed towards those who attended prior Nationals, but that was the selection process at the time. I believe they're thinking of modifying this slightly, thus my comments above.
I was a long way down the list of competitors for selection, and only made it into the team because people called up prior had decided not to go to the Worlds, and that I decided I really wanted to get there and thus made the commitment and effort to get up to Brisbane. That said, I came 6th overall out of 55 competitors at the 2010 RBA Nationals, and ended up something like 32nd or so on the list. Why? Because people before me had competed in two or three Nationals events, I'd only competed in one. I was too late to get a higher listing, because I'd only just started shooting benchrest when the 2009 RBA Nationals were held in Sydney (the 2010 Nationals were held in Brisbane - and that RBA Nationals was my second ever attempt at shooting RBA
).It's also a fair assumption that those shooters keen enough to seek selection to a Worlds team would travel to whatever events are required in order to be selected, even if those events were two states away. Do you know what is required to be selected to a Commonwealth Games/Olympic shooting team? A lot of effort, a _lot_ of shooting, and a lot of travelling around Australia competing in the various AISL shooting events. Selection certainly wouldn't be gained purely on performance at club level.
Ya just have to get out there and compete against shooters from other states and territories, and sometimes even internationally. If that costs money, then go on a sponsorship drive to get some backing, get a loan from the bank, or what not, or decide that shooting at that level is not for you.
Unfortunately, we're all amateurs, and there's little backing from government until you get to the top level of internationally recognised disciplines.
I see shooting at State, National and Worlds level a real test of abilities. But don't forget, it's not just about the shooting, but the camaraderie of the shooters during and afterwards too.
For me, selection into the Australian Shooting Team heading over to the US was a lifetime achievement. I worked hard to get that selection, and it cost me a lot of money. As my (ex-sniper) uncle said to me afterwards, "you've obviously found your calling in life".
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chris.tyne
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Re: Why is this so.??
Bec is right and some refer to it as the desire and commitment factor(others call it the time and money) I dont agree with the statement in brackets totally as you still have to have ability.
Regards Chris.
Regards Chris.
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220
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Re: Why is this so.??
Yes mate there are plenty of shooters about who can shoot world class scores at club level but a lot can't transfer those score to higher level competition. Quite a few fall in a heap under the presure of higher level competition hence the selection criteris mostly being based on the highest level competition available in Aus.native hunter wrote:G"Day All,
Surely there are shooters out there, that are unable for some reason to make these shoots that have been blowing the roof of their club shoots but dont have the time or finances to make a qualifying shoot.!!
Most states fund teams to the nationals that are normally one of the selection events and qualifying for a state team doesn't require interstate travel. Chances are if a competitor can't be bothered trying to qaulify for a state team they wouldn't have the commitment needed to succeed at world level.
Finances really don't come in to it and if you can't find/make the time to attend selection events then your dedication would have to be questionable at best.
I've got no problem with the selection criteria if you have the skill and desire to represent then it is quite achievable.
Re: Why is this so.??
I think that if you look at the model used by Archery Australia to select who goes where, you would see that the Delhi games were a massive failure. I would put money on it that there be law suits leading up to the next OGs, The archers wanted a "fairer" system, now they whinge it is too intensive and that too much emphasis is placed on traveling. Before that it was just the Nationals events leading up to the main event, Commonwealth Games, World Cup etc. No-one wins here.
If you look at the FClass World champs, Australia never even bothered to send a team so that is model to steer clear of. Yet there were four FO shooters in NQ that would have loved to have been on that team. Marty Lobert was the only one to go.
I think the best model is the one that the BR boys have. Two successive Nationals prior to the WBCs and you see the numbers right before you not long after you step off the line of the final relay of the HG event. No dodgy deals, no excuses, just an aggregate right before your eyes. Very simple, very straight forward and no arguments.
One of the big whinges out of AA was what if i fuck up on the day? Why should one bad match cost me a place? Well, cockhead, you didn't perform when you were required to, so do you really think you deserve a place? I would put it this way, you want a place on that team, then go over and tell that guy, the one that won the Nationals and has the number one spot on the plane to London, that you wish to take his place. I am sure he is a very reasonable person, he will step aside. Like fuck.
Get real people. Performance when it counts, not when it suits. Where do our swimmers come from? They get picked at the Nationals in April. Pretty good record we have there. God working model i would say too.
If you look at the FClass World champs, Australia never even bothered to send a team so that is model to steer clear of. Yet there were four FO shooters in NQ that would have loved to have been on that team. Marty Lobert was the only one to go.
I think the best model is the one that the BR boys have. Two successive Nationals prior to the WBCs and you see the numbers right before you not long after you step off the line of the final relay of the HG event. No dodgy deals, no excuses, just an aggregate right before your eyes. Very simple, very straight forward and no arguments.
One of the big whinges out of AA was what if i fuck up on the day? Why should one bad match cost me a place? Well, cockhead, you didn't perform when you were required to, so do you really think you deserve a place? I would put it this way, you want a place on that team, then go over and tell that guy, the one that won the Nationals and has the number one spot on the plane to London, that you wish to take his place. I am sure he is a very reasonable person, he will step aside. Like fuck.
Get real people. Performance when it counts, not when it suits. Where do our swimmers come from? They get picked at the Nationals in April. Pretty good record we have there. God working model i would say too.
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native hunter
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Re: Why is this so.??
Gday All,
This is not directed at anyone in particular,Lets get that straight.!!
Native
This is not directed at anyone in particular,Lets get that straight.!!
Native
Re: Why is this so.??
Tony Z, has it pretty much covered,
1: you need to compare appels with apples, so Everbody needs to be in the same place at the same time.
2: no point competing on Australia team if you are not a big day shooter.
3: RBA was best 2 from 3 years, but to be honest with a 15 person team we went down to who could afford to go.
As for the cost of travel, I spend more on ammo, and I only just buy enough top shelf ammo to tune and shoot at nationals, all other comps are shot with second or third grade ammo. I travel, sleep in the car, cheep rooms or friends floors, whatever it takes to get to the major shoots. Last year I did Brisbane twice, Sydney a couple times and Melb once. I shoot once a month at the local range and a little more leading into a major comp.
I would just be happy if the powers that be could tell me exactly which years will decide the teams. 2012 IRB worlds in Brisbane try and get somebody to tell you what 2 years will make the selection. Then there is the team to NZ same year, if those selected for for Worlds eligable for NZ or not.
As for venue of Nationals, that is uaslly about who will take them on, in the RF world at the moment that is Brisbane they will be holding the next 2 nationals and held the last, not to bias the selection, but because they were willing to take it on. Pity it is 1000km away.
Brett
1: you need to compare appels with apples, so Everbody needs to be in the same place at the same time.
2: no point competing on Australia team if you are not a big day shooter.
3: RBA was best 2 from 3 years, but to be honest with a 15 person team we went down to who could afford to go.
As for the cost of travel, I spend more on ammo, and I only just buy enough top shelf ammo to tune and shoot at nationals, all other comps are shot with second or third grade ammo. I travel, sleep in the car, cheep rooms or friends floors, whatever it takes to get to the major shoots. Last year I did Brisbane twice, Sydney a couple times and Melb once. I shoot once a month at the local range and a little more leading into a major comp.
I would just be happy if the powers that be could tell me exactly which years will decide the teams. 2012 IRB worlds in Brisbane try and get somebody to tell you what 2 years will make the selection. Then there is the team to NZ same year, if those selected for for Worlds eligable for NZ or not.
As for venue of Nationals, that is uaslly about who will take them on, in the RF world at the moment that is Brisbane they will be holding the next 2 nationals and held the last, not to bias the selection, but because they were willing to take it on. Pity it is 1000km away.
Brett
native hunter wrote:G"Day All,
Wondering why the prospective members for an Australian team/s are only chosen at 1 or 2 shoots a year at certain locations.??
Surely there are shooters out there, that are unable for some reason to make these shoots that have been blowing the roof of their club shoots but dont have the time or finances to make a qualifying shoot.!!
Are these positions only reserved for those that have the lifestyle to match.
Is this sport for the more fortunate or are we dismissing the talent of the less fortunate.??
Its not merit thats getting shooters in these squads but their ability to travel.!!!
Dont get me wrong theres lots of shooters that thoroughly deserve their spots but theres a few out there that never get a shot at it because of circumstances.
Regards
native
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native hunter
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Re: Why is this so.??
Brett33,
I see your 4 bricks of X-act sitting there today.!!!
Regards
Native
I see your 4 bricks of X-act sitting there today.!!!
Regards
Native
Re: Why is this so.??
What were you doing in Orange, Bloody Ray should keep my stuff hidden.native hunter wrote:Brett33,
I see your 4 bricks of X-act sitting there today.!!!
Regards
Native
Yeah I got an email yesterday to say it has arrived, I wish I had the coin to buy the case, that lot out performed the other 5 I tested by a good margin. I pretty much have it all shot up already.
4 Bricks = 40 packets, 2 packets setting the tunner just right, 2 packets training before Brisbane, 2 packets in Brisbane the day before for training and another 6 for the comp. 25 packets to take to the USA I will need 18 packets in Comp, and some for practice all going well I might get to bring a few packets home. That leaves 3 packets for training before I go to the USA.
No X-act ammo for any comps in Sydney or Melb this year the budget is blown.
Brett
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native hunter
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Re: Why is this so.??
Brett,
Yes it is an expensive endevour this rimfire shooting.!!
See ya up at brissy.!!
Regards
native
Yes it is an expensive endevour this rimfire shooting.!!
See ya up at brissy.!!
Regards
native
Re: Why is this so.??
This is what it has gotten down to. Someone was not all that happy at being omitted from selection so he placed a public poll on Simon Fairweather, Olympic Gold medalist and current head coach/selector for Archery Australia. Think ourselves lucky we haven't gotten to this point yet and I still have money on heaps of law suits coming up soon.
http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread ... who-agrees
http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread ... who-agrees