Why Are No Actions made in OZ!

[m12vlp]

Hey M12, Shhhhh, they are listening..JR. Mines 2 lugs(is there any other type?) and weights at 6 kgs with a 1.250x16tpi thread

And front locking of course

[a.JR]

No Alchemy, incantations or far away distant lands were used in this process, more built like a Massey Ferguson than an F111 actually..JR

Hey M12, Shhhhh, they are listening..JR. Mines 2 lugs(is there any other type?) and weights at 6 kgs with a 1.250x16tpi thread

And front locking of course

[petevm]

Interesting to compare Jeff's action to mine dimensionally. My reciever is only 5.5" long and the modified Rem bolt body is a scant 4.25" (loaded round is about 4"). All this is made possible by virtue of it being a 'back-loader'. It's actually quicker to cycle than one might imagine as those who have watched me launch 10 bullets down-range in 30 seconds at Canberra will attest. As you can imagine the barrel is fastened to the stock with the action 'free-floated'. Tony's comments about running a long thread at full barrel diameter to simplify re-chamberings is also a feature of my bench-rest action. But more on that in the next instalment.

[Tony Z]

These are a couple of pics of the prototype action i was looking at manufacturing back in 2005. Rem 700 style but with a larger diameter bolt, Sako style extractor, larger tenon diameter at 1 1/8" x 16 TPI and a 5/16" recoil lug. Also in these pics is an action body i was looking to do whereby a Brno 22 bolt was used. These were to be sold without a bolt for those that had a Brno and were looking to get into rimfire BR. These were also to have a conversion to use a Jewell trigger and would have also had a Rem 700 footprint, including the recoil lug set up. I did this because from my own perspective the Brno as is, is a pile of junk. Not enough time to explain why but the bolt is OK, and the rest should be binned. I did this action one night back when i was quite dumb and still shot rimfire BR. But then i awoke from that nightmare and scrapped it. It will never be built and the one pictured has had a drop saw put through it so to avoid any insane temptation or some mental disorder in my later years. Or in Rinsos lingo, the lingering effects of house brick syndrome.
All actions were to be made of 420, a stainless tool steel of sorts with a very low distortion number when nitrided. Bolt to body clearance in the center fire action was set at less than one thou. There were to be three action sizes, the BR at 1.350" in a Rem 700 footprint, one at 1.500" diameter and 9 inches long, for FClass and LG and another at 2" diameter and at 10 inches long for the unlimited and HG classes. There is another that i do have the prototype of that is not pictured and it is 12 inches long and is 2 1/2" in diameter. This one will also never be completed but as yet hasn't had the rimfire treatment.

All the actions that i was looking to make were to be of a very conventional turn bolt style. I wanted to use the best steels, the best metal treatment i could find, have the little additions to the actions to smooth and speed things up for those that wanted it. I looked at many actions to see what features were worth while so that i could place them onto these actions. Rollers on extraction, the idea i stole off PVM, main cocking sear and helix roller as i have been fitting for some time now, replaceable firing pin end that believe it or not were decapping pins used in a conventional die that could be purchased anywhere, adjustable pin protrusion like Savage, adjustable cocking timing again like Savage, no tools required to dismantle the bolt etc. All the actions were to have Rem 700 style mounts fit directly to them. Basically i looked to build within an industry that already existed, except that the Rem 700 bolts themselves would not fit either or.
There are many reasons why i didn't go ahead with it. With the SR BR action, well that was a given, action flavor changes week to week and the one thing that was most important to a BR action, i didn't have. A known brand name. With the 1.5" action, well that was going to the crowed that looked at performance ahead of a name. I think that action would have done well in both FClass and LR BR. As for the 2" or 2 1/2" version, that was never realistic as the market is far too limited to a handful of HG users, that in this country, already have these types of actions.

The plan i had was to promote these actions in the best way possible. One of each type of action was to be sent to the person i felt who would give it an honest appraisal in competition. The idea being that an action out there, hopefully doing well, says a lot more than anything else can. All in all it is a very tough market to get into and in the end the thing that killed it off was the figures. Like Peter stated, a lot of work and a lot of initial money to outlay for a very small gain.

[petevm]

Hey Tony

Excellent post!!! Once again we show our readers that it's not for lack of enginuity that Oz lacks an Action maker but the lack of financial reward that is the most likely outcome.
Nev'l Madden gets a better hourly rate making barrels than anything else he is equally talented at doing, I get the same benefit from concentrating my time on other activities (sales-wise or workshop-wise) rather than 'farting about' making actions (however innovative they may be).
As a point of interest my EP action has, as you know, a modified Rem bolt (hard-chromed and cylindrically ground for smoothness in a traditionally 'blued' reciever) and hence it has 'std' locking lug area yet still shows no sign of wear or 'set-back' despite the new reciever being left at the '4140' steel normalised state of about 28 Rockwell. This again hi-lights the 'stretch' aspect of action design!!!!!

Pete

[RDavies]

Its a shame it couldnt be. I always like to use localy made where possible, especialy when they are better than anything else out there.

I have an idea, what we need is action building competitions. Spend your nights, weekends and spare time to build the best action you can and you get a little badge or medal for each one. Jeeze, we all spend lots of time and money trying to build and tune our guns, but not many people I know do target shooting for the financial gain.

It would be good to see a few more of these actions out there. (or in my safe)

[Mick]

I only get one firing per case because the load produces about .005" to .008" of case head expansion and the primer pocket is enlarged.

Yeah, I remember looking at a fired case against a new case in that thing, and there is clearly a substantial visible change in the case head. Would need a sledgehammer to lift the bolt in most actions after that punishment.

[Seddo]

It would be good to see a few more of these actions out there. (or in my safe)

+2

[petevm]

The Final Chapter.

The benchrest action. Again this is an EP design with internal barrel lock-up but this time against a screwed-in insert (4140 to 45 Rockwell and nitrided) embodying the lugs and ramps (much easier to make these in a seperate part). A fair amount of torque also pre-stresses the steel in the reciever to further reduce stretch. The bolt nose is recessed into the barrel like a Rem and the revised design will delete the little mechanical plunger that I had used to assist in the 'bottom ejection' as well as deleting the use of a Sako style extractor in favour of a Rem unit. This will give a completely clean bolt face eliminating the 'smearing' of brass extruded into the plunger hole and without any extractor cuts in the bolt nose safety will be enhanced. At the front of the full diameter bolt is a section of uninterrupted pherifery which lodges in an uninterrupted portion of the reciever with minimal clearance making the action virtually 'gas-tight'. The bolt is also 4140 to 45 Rockwell but is titanium nitride coated creating a very slick and durable combination with the lug insert. At the other end the roller for the opening cam will be moved to the root of the bolt handle (easier to make). There is a loading port on either side of the reciever so making a left handed version is only a matter of re-locating the nubbin that the roller runs against and provding a LH bolt body.
The time spent with the prototypes (chambered for 6mmBR) was very interesting. Overloads that gave significant case head expansion and 'smearing' were stiil easy to extract proving the EP concept. When compared to another 6mmBR on a Stolle Panda action I could not get to within 1 or 2 grains of the powder charge before the bolt became nearly frozen.
Will I ever get around to making the 10 units I plan to build???? Anyone's guess - too much else to do at this time!!
Back to the original question that Jeff asked about why no actions made in Oz - simply because there is no money in it!!!


Thanks for the interest shown in my ramblings. Pete

[a.JR]

Hi All , Lots of ideas , Lots of interest .. No chance of making any return on dollars invested in the short term ,SO, What about starting up a Company with joint partners to start manufacturing an OZ Action.. Need at least 1/4 mil ,so ten guys in at $25000 or 20 guys at $12500 . i reckon expect no return in under 48 months . The business model would be need to be clearly laid out for my limited dollars to be included but i am interested ..JR..Jeff Rogers

[chris.tyne]

Jeff the idea sounds good but and this is from someone who does not own a business but say 20 blokes,$12500 each now suppose you sold the action for $2000,and suppose that was all profit(which it wont be) then divide that by the 20 investors..........
............................$100 per action.
It would take a loooooooooong time to recoupe the inital investment amount,that aside I really like this thread as there is a wealth of info being shared.


Regards Chris.

[RDavies]

If the actions are as good as you are saying, why would you have to price them at $2000 when people are apying double that for an action from USA?

[chris.tyne]

Who is paying $4000 for their actions



Regards Chris.

[morerams]

Lloyd Neilsen also made complete rifles, the 300 being like an Omark with adaptor, the 600 being a one piece action same sizes as the 300 and a rear locking action the Sabre, all designed for fullbore shooting as single shot actions.

We also had John Jongmans who made complete rifles from 22 rimfires up to the 727 (12 ga based on the 50 BMG case).

Going by all the people who have had a go at rifle making and are no longer doing it there can only be two reasons why we don't see them still making actions, 1 the product was no good, or 2 the market would not pay for an Australian product, or 3rd reason, they are dead.

[singleshot]

Lloyd Neilsen also made complete rifles, the 300 being like an Omark with adaptor, the 600 being a one piece action same sizes as the 300 and a rear locking action the Sabre, all designed for fullbore shooting as single shot actions.

We also had John Jongmans who made complete rifles from 22 rimfires up to the 727 (12 ga based on the 50 BMG case).

Going by all the people who have had a go at rifle making and are no longer doing it there can only be two reasons why we don't see them still making actions, 1 the product was no good, or 2 the market would not pay for an Australian product, or 3rd reason, they are dead.

Al

When I said complete rifles I meant the barrel as well. I did forget about the Neilsen. I have a feeling his actions were produced by MAB in Bris. He mainly used Maddco barrels from what I saw.
Madden's rifles are made "in house" and he does still put one out occasionally. I know of 3 people I shoot with with recent builds. The rifle thing for Nev is certainly not profit driven.

I did not include John Jongmans because he kicked off in NZ.

Maddco Action with Nitride finish.






Regards
Cameron