Why Are No Actions made in OZ!

[chris.tyne]

Pete when you talk I listen,if you are happy to type it I am more than willing to read it.....................continue the story please .



Regards Chris.

[Knackers]

Pete when you talk I listen,if you are happy to type it I am more than willing to read it.....................continue the story please .



Regards Chris.

I'm all ears too.

[MISSED]

Pete when you talk I listen,if you are happy to type it I am more than willing to read it.....................continue the story please .



Regards Chris.

I read Leeroy`s action build on AHN and was enthralled so Pete can you please add your experience.

[Tony Z]

Good writing there Pete, keep it going. I would have thought that that lovely little action you showed me years ago would have been a goer.

I think that there have been quite a few that have had a look at manufacturing an action in recent times, just like i did a few years ago. The reality is that whatever action you make, some-one will want something else and then there is the 20% factor where they are left handers. I looked at it realistically where i could do a run of 50 actions so that it would have been economically viable from a machining perspective. But from an economic perspective i looked at it from the view that i may sell 20 actions, at best, in that financial year. The numbers say don't bother and the red tape says why would you bother.
Neville Madden has a number of receivers sitting there on a shelf awaiting completion. But i would reckon they will never be finished because he is guaranteed a sale of those same man hours when they are spent on manufacturing barrels. His bread and butter where the actions were once a passion that has long gone. How many has Neville got on a list for his replacement Sako triggers? Fucking heaps and we will all be dead before that order is filled. Too many barrels to make and too little time to waste on putting together a finicky thing like a trigger.

[petevm]

Tony, Thanks for your kind remarks. Yes, Neville has the 'Action Bug' out of his system it would seem, as a result of pure economics just as I have to this point - if life is long enough and finance permits I might have another go at it. Next instalment of the 'Action Saga' will have wait till I get more ears and a clear 'morning mind'. Pete

[m12vlp]

Plenty of ears listening

[petevm]

Part 2.

Earlier I mentioned that the first actions utilised a Rem bolt (modified somewhat). Reason for this is simply that a 'conventional' bolt with protruding lugs is quite difficult to make so a satisfactory short-cut was taken. Having accumulated a number of Rem bolts over the years I re-visited the idea of making recievers to suit and again found the cost-effectiveness not worth the bother except if I wanted some more Extreme Pressure actions (more on this later).
A few years back a mate returned from an extended working stint in the US and at the age of 50 found it hard to get a job despite his vast experience in engineering, As a result Bob and I cooked up a number of schemes and he began setting up a workshop that included a small CNC equipped mill. You guessed it - a new action design was drafted! As with so many others the bolt would feature lugs cut into a 22mm body (but only two lugs of course). Another really tricky part of making an action is the forming of the ramps on the internal lugs in the reciever but Bob devised a very clever way of doing this that was quick and precise on the CNC mill (details are not in the public domain). So we were now getting very close and could offer any porting arrangement, bolt faces up to 'magnum' etc, etc. The need to keep some money coming in meant that it was all a little drawn out. Then tragedy struck when Bob was diagnosed with cancer. When he died a little over a year later he left his computer (with all the CAD drawings) behind but to this day no-one has been able to unlock the file. I still have the basic design in my head (and a few test pieces are floating about) but to make this design without CNC machines would not be practicable.
Throughout these times I have continued to build a great many rifles on Rem actions and at one stage I got to be curious about action stiffness. So I assemled a benchrest rifle using a converted 700 short action (aluminium single shot feed tray super-glued in place). The action was bedded (not glued) into the stock and retained with the usual three screws one sees on the 'ADL' versions. Next, the barrel was pulled from a sleeved 40X 6mmPPC B/R rifle and fitted to the test rifle. The barrel was a known shooter so would provide a valid test. To my surprise the damn thing shot every bit as good as it had ever done!! Subsequently I have built a number of 'F' class rifles the same way and they give nothing away to those I have built using custom single shot actions (glued-in or otherwise). Interesting stuff that myth's are made from!! More another day, if you want it.

Pete

[singleshot]

Part 2.
..........
Throughout these times I have continued to build a great many rifles on Rem actions and at one stage I got to be curious about action stiffness. So I assemled a benchrest rifle using a converted 700 short action (aluminium single shot feed tray super-glued in place). The action was bedded (not glued) into the stock and retained with the usual three screws one sees on the 'ADL' versions. Next, the barrel was pulled from a sleeved 40X 6mmPPC B/R rifle and fitted to the test rifle. The barrel was a known shooter so would provide a valid test. To my surprise the damn thing shot every bit as good as it had ever done!! Subsequently I have built a number of 'F' class rifles the same way and they give nothing away to those I have built using custom single shot actions (glued-in or otherwise). Interesting stuff that myth's are made from!! More another day, if you want it.

Pete

Thanks for the story Pete. Interesting about the action rigidity that many people think is absolutely essential for accuracy. Yes it helps , but not totally essential. Many other factors affect rifle accuracy.
I had Rem 700 pillar bedded into a McMillan prone stock for fullbore use about 15 years ago. I had a 31" Obermeyer barrel hanging off the end of the 700 action. That rifle helped me win me a lot of trophies. It was super accurate.

Cameron

[AlanF]

Very interesting Pete. So its not for lack of trying that we don't have an Australian Rem clone.

With the current exchange rate, maybe someone needs to back their judgement, and place a very big order with one of the numerous Rem clone makers in the US. You would need to choose one with a good product, who could manufacture in sufficient volume and reasonable time. It seems that currently when you order a US action here, your individual order is then placed with the manufacturer. That's a very slow delivery model. Would be good to have them available off the shelf here.

Alan

[petevm]

Hi Alan,

Do you want to invest your retirement fund on a possible 10% return ?? Damn sure most would not and I would agree with them. OK, if it's 'off the shelf', people will pay a bit extra, but in my experience you will be forever tarred with the 'gee he's expensive' brush. I have US made actions on the shelf that are now being offered below my landed cost (paid for at .65 cents) and that's still too dear!

Pete

[petevm]

Part 3

Extreme Pressure. As you are all no doubt aware steel and brass are elastic. When a rifle is fired the front portion of the reciever can stretch radially and longitudinally, the barrel shank can do the same and the bolt nose can compress - additionally the bolt and reciever lugs can distort. Depending on the pressure generated in the chamber (and hence the back thrust against the bolt face) this stretching can exceed the ability of the brass case to 'spring back' as much as the steel components. This results in the usual situation of stiff bolt lift and possibly a stuck case with a piece torn out of the rim. To alleviate this situation we can simply make every thing more massive to the point where the action may be ridiculously oversize. There are, however, other ways. Firstly we need to have a clean bolt face - this means that our old favorite the Rem will need the ejector removed and the hole plugged and the firing pin hole sleeved to take the new .060" tip. The first is to prevent brass extruding into the plunger hole and making a nuisance of itself, the second so as to minimise primer 'cratering'. The front of the bolt lugs get a 45 degree 'cone' shape machined onto them. Next we recut the thread in the reciever some way further in and shorten the front of the reciever by about 10mm. The barrel shank will follow the modified bolt nose and utilise this extra thread. We now have a reciever with about 20% shorter 'stretching' length and hence a slightly improved resistance to the effects of high pressure loading. That's about as far as we can go with a standard action. Now, if we use a Rem bolt modified as per above but put it into a special reciever with a (short) 1.25" thread that locks up at the end of the thread against an internal shoulder (instead of a shoulder on the barrel abutting the front of the reciever) we have reduced the 'stretchy' length dramatically AND reduced radial stretch as well. Fact is that such a beast exists and is hanging off the back of my heavy 1K rifle and it allows me to run 300 Ultra Mag ammo that gives 3,300 to 3,400 fps with 210gn bullets. Yep, that's hot. I only get one firing per case because the load produces about .005" to .008" of case head expansion and the primer pocket is enlarged. Yet the bolt handle lifts easily and withdraws cleanly - the standard action would be well and truly frozen.
This is one example of an Extreme Pressure action.

[m12vlp]

Wow. I was surprised when I read the part about shortening the receiver but then the reason for it was well explained.

Thanks for that.

I know that a.JR has an action that can take the high pressure and I don't expect him to comment on it but it would be interesting to know if his and your extreme pressure actions share similar design features.

[chappo555]

Informative as always Pete v. There is obviously so much more that goes into making a good action than most of us think.
Cheers
Chappo555

[a.JR]

Hey M12, Shhhhh, they are listening..JR. Mines 2 lugs(is there any other type?) and weights at 6 kgs with a 1.250x16tpi thread

Wow. I was surprised when I read the part about shortening the receiver but then the reason for it was well explained.

Thanks for that.

I know that a.JR has an action that can take the high pressure and I don't expect him to comment on it but it would be interesting to know if his and your extreme pressure actions share similar design features.

[Tony Z]

Good info again there Pete.

When i did the HG action for JR back in 2000 i just simply took what was already working at 1K, Rem 700, and increased it dimensionally and subsequently coined a name for it, RemRoid. Others like justjeff may have another name for it as in HemRoid.
As Peter did we went with a short but far larger tenon in its diameter, 32x1.5mm, not the imperial size JR mentioned. If i did it again, this would be even further increased in size where the thread would be 1.5" x18 or 20 TPI where the back of the barrel butted into a shoulder inside the receiver itself. Just run the thread along a parallel 1.5 inch barrel for a few inches, and then dock and square as required when a re-chamber is done. That way no shoulder on the barrel is required. Anthony Guilkes does this on his HG actions and i believe it is the way to go.
The other thing we did was drop port the action. JR contacted Stiller about this and he had no idea as to the geometry of doing this. So i sat down and worked out what i thought would be required, and luckily Jeff has never had a hang up. Since then i have reconfigured the port in other actions to where it is about 40mm long to drop a 2.650" case, and 42mm long for a 2.800"case. The angle of the ramp in conjunction with the actions bolt bore size is what holds the key to this working at these shortened lengths. I believe there are still only these two purpose built drop port magnum actions current being used anywhere. Bob L uses a drop port now on his 300WSM. but it is a modified Rem 700 i did last year. Jeff Harrison will shortly have one also. Remingtons need a near full length port to drop a case successfully.

Two other things that were done that were a little different, actually three. One i stole off Peter and his little action he showed me, was the roller extraction cam. This little addition is literally worth its weight in diamonds as it speeds up an action like nothing else can and is one thing that every commercial and custom action i have played with since falls down in. So we are both indebted to PVM for that one.
The next thing was that at this particular era of action building the trend was to go with lighter firing pins and faster lock times. Well contrary to that, i went with a pin that was heavy, very heavy, and rather pedestrian in the world that followed. Now it seems the must do with some custom actions is to add weight to the pin where the complaint was inexplicable vertical. So the world has turned a little.
Lastly with the actual finish of the action, as this was 709M moly that was used, i went with a Nitride finish. Not the gas nitride, the liquid one. This leaves a matt gunmetal grey type finish to all metal parts that polish up to leave a very slick and very hard working surface. It does three things at once, it gives a long lasting outer finish and provides a super slick and gall free surface for the locking lugs that are beyond 65 Rockwell in hardness, and it through hardens the moly to around 42 RC. After more than 20,000 cartridges through this action, i cannot measure any wear, anywhere. I now see that these type finishes are being offered in some European actions as of last year and in some rather pretty colours. A nitride finish works out to be less than the cost of bluing by a long shot, and also dodges the cost of oil or gas hardening of the action. Win Win.

I can guarantee that if you were to take either Peters or Jeffs cartridges and load them into a conventional type action and fire them, you will not open the bolt. That tenon diameter and length, though it may mean little to some, means everything.