airgun set up for pigeons

[feralbuster]

Hi AG'ers,,
I have the opportunity to start doing a lot of pigeon control around the place in big haysheds/machinery sheds. So, I need some advice on getting an airgun set up to undertake this work.
so, I've been considering an Airarms PCP that I can adjust the output on (to minimize pass-throughs), but I'm wondering whether a semi auto will be better for faster follow up shots over a repeater.
1) are the semi auto's as accurate as the lever repeater PCP's?
2) is .22 cal going to be the best calibre option (on pigeons?)
3) what pellets are going to best for pigeons?
4) light set up: scope mounted or barrel mounted?
5) I have a loopy 3-9x33 AO scope in my cupboard, I'd assume this would be more than sufficient for 'shed' shooting?
6) full length barrel, or carbine barrel?
Thanks

[RayG]

Hi AG'ers,,
I have the opportunity to start doing a lot of pigeon control around the place in big haysheds/machinery sheds. So, I need some advice on getting an airgun set up to undertake this work.
so, I've been considering an Airarms PCP that I can adjust the output on (to minimize pass-throughs), but I'm wondering whether a semi auto will be better for faster follow up shots over a repeater.
1) are the semi auto's as accurate as the lever repeater PCP's?
2) is .22 cal going to be the best calibre option (on pigeons?)
3) what pellets are going to best for pigeons?
4) light set up: scope mounted or barrel mounted?
5) I have a loopy 3-9x33 AO scope in my cupboard, I'd assume this would be more than sufficient for 'shed' shooting?
6) full length barrel, or carbine barrel?
Thanks

Hi FB,
You are on the right track with your choice of PCP,a variable power gun is a handy thing,for all the reasons you have stated,and to answer you questions in order:

1: The PCP semi autos are quite accurate,but be aware that they require a keen service regime to keep them shooting properly.
2:Calibre can be and is always a matter of preference. There is nothing wrong with any of the AG calibres in PCP guns, they all shoot both powerfully and accurately. I shoot with .22 cal and .20 cal on pigeons and any other small pests Rats/Rabbits etc.
3:Once again the pellet choice is nominal it always depends on what your guns like and the type of shooting you are doing. Mostly I use the round nose pellets as they do the job well in all my guns.
4:Here there is a big range of lights which are perfect for this job on an AG. My personal preference is for the Wolf Eyes Range of both small and large hunting torches. I like my light mounted on the scope,for me this keeps the gun balanced and the light is in the place for quick operation.Take a look in the equipment page,there is a mine of info on all the various torches the guys are using lately.
5:I would say that the Loopy would do the job,it would help if it can focus down to 10 metres
especially if you are shooting in some tight sheds etc.
6:Again personal preference in barrel length comes into it. But for an example of a good PCP for the job IMHO,would be the carbine version of the Air Arms 410 Side lever in the calibre of choice.
Well that,s just my 2 cents worth,no doubt someone else will add some useful comment as well.
Cheers,
Ray.

[fenring]

Paging Chris Thomas!

[JD]

Feralbuster,

I've got an Air Arms S400, it's brilliant. If you were to get the S410 (10 shot version) you'd be absolutely set for some serious pigeon work, get a couple of mags and you'd be set to decimate the population. The side lever is so smooth and quick that I'd never consider the semiauto for the reasons RayG mentions. Too complicated and too many moving parts. If you want a workhorse gun, go with a simple repeater like the air arms. They are very simple and easy to work on if you ever need to.

The price is the big winner! My S400 in walnut was $1290. The Walnut S410 was about $1590. They are cheaper in beech by about a hundred dollars. Get them through your local dealer from Xtek.

The ability to quickly change power is a great feature and you'd find it very handy-even essential. I've read people complaining about not being able to set the power exactly and repeatably but I haven't had a problem. I use full power (flat out), half power and low power, the gauge marks are easy and repeatable enough for me. It's easy to set and I change the power all the time. If I'm away from my tank and plinking I'll turn the power down a bit to conserve air. If you are shooting in sheds you'll definitely want to turn the power down or you'll punch holes clear through the roof and walls. But if a pigeon flies out to a distance you can easily and quickly turn it up to max and nail him at 75m if you want. Just spend a bit of time to learn the strike points at the different power settings.

The gun is very quiet. I'd recommend .22 for pigeons for the extra whack factor, it's just able to put more energy on the target. I have the full length rifle version and get around 35-40 shots per fill (I haven't counted, I just look at the pressure gauge). If you can handle fewer shots per fill (around 20-25) then the carbine would be a fair bit handier in a shed environment. My rifle length would be a little ungainly. One option too would be to get the carbine version and then put a classic length air tube on it to get more shots. You can get the tubes from Topgun Airguns in the US for about $70US. If you are going to be shooting a lot in a session and away from your tank the upgrade might be worth it to you.

What more can I say, great gun and I'm super happy with it. I got the single shot because I mainly shoot targets and silhouette with the gun so the multi-shot didn't really interest me. Personally I think the Air Arms has the features you want and is one of the cheapest available in Aus to boot.

If I get off my butt I'll write up a bit of a report with some pics.

Cheers, JD

[chris thomas]

I'm not much help as i have 15 air rifles 9 of them PCP i just love my air rifles.

If you only want the one rifle to do all i would look at

.22
8-12 shot mags and around 5 of them
Adjustable power 12 ,15-30 FP but don't get too power happy i have wacked plenty of pigeons with a FWB 10m rifle
Scope. Variable 4-12 with AO and a a large field of view The Simmons WTC are my first choice as they are very good in low light.

.177,20,22,25 they are all great but i think .22 is the best alrounder. I have been doing a shoot in town .I had around 500 birds to remove. The shoot was in under a road with a creek running through. I had to stand in water between knee and waist height so i didn't have time to use a medium powered rifle and place my shots. I used my Rapid .25 set at 55 FP i would go in with 8 12 shot mags and wack as many as you can. Short range 10-19m 96 shots 96 birds no flappers all clean kills so the rapid was the right rifle for the job. Then i swap to my Cyclone set at 12 FP and mooch around the buildings picking off the one's that make it out from under the bridge ,12 FP is fine out to 30m and is great around building tin roofs spouts etc and if you do have a miss damage is very slight. I spent 1.5 hours to fire 24 shots for 24 birds. I again swapped rifles to my FWB .177 set at 6 FP as the birds started to want to come back in under the bridge and they were purched up on handrails,street lights,power lines,fuel bowsers cabin of a bob cat so super low power and accuracy is what was needed as 6FP is best with head shots so accuracy is everything. Two or three rifles is the way to go or at least adjustable power.

I have had three nights of this one more should finish it

Regards

Chris Thomas

[feralbuster]

Thanks Ray, JD & Chris.
some very helpful advice.
I'd read the AG part of the forum fairly extensively, and was just looking for a bit more confirmation on whether I was heading in the right direction
Chris, you have more airguns than I have firearms! I only plan to have one AG, thats why I'm trying to make the right choice and get the right set up now!

Any thoughts on brands of pellets? (for accuracy and use on pigeons) or are AG's a bit like their rimfire cousins: a bit particular to certain brands and therefore a process of elimination is required?

Off to my LGS today for some other stuff, so I'm going to get some pricing

[Whitey]

Have a look at an FX Cyclone in .22. I use mine in and around sheds on rats. The variable power is the way to go. No damage and you can conserve air. It is also short and lite to carry. Mags are simple. The Rapid is great, but abit too much power in the sheds.

I use a Fenix TK11R2 led torch with a red cover, tactical switch and rechargeable battery. This torch is specifically for shooting applications. Good strong beam and reasonable price. I have tried and have several of this style of torch and this one is the pick for our uses I think.

Comes down to what you are willing to spend. I like the BSA multishot also. They are not as expensive as some of the above. Choice, choices.

[RayG]

[Quote] Any thoughts on brands of pellets? (for accuracy and use on pigeons) or are AG's a bit like their rimfire cousins: a bit particular to certain brands and therefore a process of elimination is required? [Quote]

AG,s can be the most pellet picky guns in the world. The trick is to go for quality pellets for a start and see what your gun likes in the range available. I use JSB pellets for my .22 and .20 as they are the only pellets that the guns will shoot reliably with.
Enjoy,
Ray.

[GIJ]

You're on the right track. I shoot pigeons in a few factories in Perth.
I use an FX Gladiator .22 (adjustable power) pump action with 8 shot mags. I have 4 mags, at least 2 is a must. Low power kills without penetrating the pigeon, med kills quicker, no flapping. High power is for when a cat or rabbit pops up or the factory wants holes in the roof. JSB exacts from Potters for me, Perth shops stock junk only. I use a LED lenser torch on the scope, enough range for the air rifle. I prefer switching the torch on then taking the shot. When using the tactical switch thing I tend to pull the shot because I'm squeezing the switch. My scope is an artic fox 2-7x32, does the job but a bit tricky when trying to shoot pigeons behind the ceiling lights or in dark corners.
I used to use a Gamo CFX but it was like fighting a war with a muzzle loader, not quick enough. I used a .177 in my school days but had to be spot on with my aim to bring a pigeon down then still require a follow up kill shot. .22 takes them down much better.
Good luck with it, pigeons are great for an evening shoot after work then home in time for dinner.

[feralbuster]

Thanks guys,
I'm probably going to order:
Airarms 410 carbine (beech stock)
6 spare magazines
scope Loopy 3-9X33 AO EFR (Extremely Fine Reticle) (I bought this the last time the $AUD was up from TOZ)
Scuba tank adaptor
2nd hand scuba bottle

sounds like the JSB pellets are the go?
how many shots (average) do you get out of a scuba bottle?

[JD]

Feralbuster, I reckon you'll do well with that combo.

There is a good thread here the gun here (just be aware the shot counts provided is with an larger tube added), so you can work out the number of mags needed from this ($ in US, just for your information):
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/me ... obby+Escay

Another thread here with some fill info for the unmodified carbine with factory sized tube:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/th ... 10+Carbine

The Loopy is a nice little scope, EFR stands for Extended Focus Range meaning it can focus right down to 10m. It would be a nice one for close up pigeon work and should be nice and bright.

I'd go straight to JSB pellets. Chances are nearly certain they will be the best pellet for the rifle. You have a few options, you can get the JSB Exact Jumbo 16gr ones or the Exact Jumbo Heavy's 18gr. Either is fine. I'm shooting the 18gr ones and been very happy with the performance, but either shoot great.

Your shots/fills out of a scuba bottle depends on a few things. The size and the pressure of the scuba tank, then the size of your rifles tank and the fill and refill pressures. I can fill in a few for you. Use the refill calculator here: http://www.airhog.com/tank.htm

The rifles tank size is 181 cubic inch
Your fill pressure will be 200Bar (but for best accuracy refill to 190 bar)
Your refill pressure will probably be around 140 Bar, maybe a little lower.

Most scuba tanks available are 207bar or 232bar (get the highest you can find), I managed to get a 300bar but these are rare and expensive. Then scuba tanks vary in size, but 80 cuft and 100cuft (or 8L, 10L, 12L) are common enough, get the biggest again unless you really need portability. Obviously the bigger and higher pressure the more fills you get and the less trips to the scuba place.

Plug in some numbers and see how you go.

Best of luck and have fun with it. JD

[feralbuster]

Hi airgunners,
I ordered my air-arms 410 carbine today (beech stock, side lever FAC)
I looked into a scuba tank, and could get a 12L, 232 Bar tank for $500, but the lady there told me I might only get 30 fills out of it into my AG, and they are far enough away from where I live to be a hassle, so I ordered a Hill hand pump to get started, maybe get a tank later on. I'm also getting the pump from the LGS, though I know its probably cheaper to mail order it from the UK, I decided that I should support my LGS more than just buying primers, powder & getting them to do gun transfers for me!
(though I just realised I didn't order any spare mags )

Thanks for all your help guys

PS AM said your new airarms was shooting pretty well Ray (assming you are the same Ray?!)

[curan]

...........so I ordered a Hill hand pump to get started, maybe get a tank later on.......

That will keep you fit

I reckon you'll soon be looking at the tank as a really good value for money purchase!

I got mine from Underwater Sports, 4/1048 Grand Junction Road, Holden Hill SA 5088
Told them I was a member of a shooting club, and they were recommended, and I got the club price on an alloy tank.

******** 85 cft Alu tank $389 **********

It's worth a try!

regards, curan.