30-30 vs 45-70

[Hawkeye77]

Hi all,

Im in the market for a lever gun; Im thinking a Marlin 336 in 30-30 or a 1895 in 45-70?
What are your opinions on both calibres, pros and cons, etc? Thoughts on make of rifle? Is Marlin the best choice for a lever gun?
I set on getting a 30-30 but i've already got a 30cal bolt action so i though the larger 45-70 would be the better choice as it would cover larger game like Sambar etc.

I guess things to consider would be; cost / availibility of ammo and components, trajectory and maximum point blank range, magazine capacity, barrel life and length? rifle weight, recoil, variety of bullet weights / constructions... just to name a few.

Any input would be great,
Thanks guys,

Hawk

[Hawkeye77]

Oh and i guess one other important factor to consider would be accuracy!!! How could one forget that?!

[wifecallsmegrumpy]

Not to discourage you but I haven't what I would call an accurate lever gun. I am sure they exist but the three I have had were shockers.
Good fun as a short distance gun but even plinkibg gets boring when you cannot hit anything.
That said, the marlin is the pick of the bunch.

[adamjp]

What are you looking to shoot with it? The 30/30 is enough gun for all but the largest bovines (Scrubbers/Buffalo/Banteng) and even then, a 170gn Partition might just do the job OK. Compared to a 45/70 it is probably half the cost to reload for, and factory ammunition is pretty much guranteed to be ANYWHERE ammunition is sold.

I'm going against the current opinion - I really don't like Marlin 336 guns, they are fat in the hand and point like shit. So they can mount a scope - why would I want to do that on a rifle for medium sized animals that will be used out to 150m? A M94AE will also mount a scope without issues.

Yes. I have a Model 1894 Winchester 30/30, 16in barrel, XS Ghost ring sights. It hits well enough at 100m to keep 5 shots (a magazine full) in a 8in circle offhand. Off a rest I'd expect it to do better.

[Marco]

I too own a Win 30-30 trapper carbine and as a short range scrub gun it works great! does the job.
But i also own a Uberti 1866 yellowboy carbine in 44-40WCF and with 240gr slugs drops pigs like a sack of shit, first shot to the neck or head they drop and they dont get back up, but if i do a heart-lung shot they may run for 30 meters before they drop.

[chris.tyne]

Yep for general hunting(dunno about Sambar) the 30/30 is good to go,with the 45/70 I have to ......................................close my eyes when I pull the trigger .


Regards Chris.

[Hawkeye77]

Yeah, i'm leaning towards the 30-30, simply for the fact that its cheaper to shoot... Whats the point of owning a gun if you only ever shoot it once a year because you cant afford the ammo!!! I just spoke to a friend in the industry, he was saying about $50/20 rounds!!! F**K me i could buy match grade stuff for my .308 for less than that!!!
I reckon 30-30 is the go... and im pretty set on a Marlin, but thats definately a nice Winnie!!! I may just have to go and have a play with both to work out which would best suit me.
Okay so whats the optimum barrel length for a 30-30? I like the fast feel of the shorter "Guide" guns but like it was mentioned, leverguns reputation for accuracy aren't exacly tack drivers, maybe its better to get a longer barrel to help with accuracy?

[Con]

If your going to be chasing Sambar, I'd forget the 30/30 unless your the type that likes to stack the odds against yourself. Factory ammunition is expensive cf to 30/30, even reloading its more expensive ... but you can use commercial hard-cast pills to reduce costs and still shoot lengthwise through virtually anything.

Once you take 30/30 factory ballistics from 26" test barrels and translate them to 20" carbines ... you've lost a bit. Dock the barrel to guide gun lengths and you've lost even more.

For pigs, goats and fallow the 30/30 would be lovely, but throw in Red and Sambar and the 45/70 will come into its own and you wont be left with smoking cases at your feet and wishing you had more.
Cheers...
Con

[adamjp]

Once you take 30/30 factory ballistics from 26" test barrels and translate them to 20" carbines ... you've lost a bit. Dock the barrel to guide gun lengths and you've lost even more.

Sorry Con, I going to call BULLSHIT on that one.

When I bought my 30/30 it was a standard 20in carbine. Factory 125gn Federal loads came out an average 15fps quicker than they did once I had the barrel docked to 16in. This is over the same chronograph, using rounds from one 20rd box given to me at the shop when I bought the gun.

I was surprised, but the numbers did not lie.

So if docking 4in loses 15fps, then going to the extra 4in (24in) is unlikely to generate any significant gain at all.

[Con]

[/quote] Sorry Con, I going to call BULLSHIT on that one.[/quote]

I'll double your bullshit and throw in a dung beetle.

When I suffered from a 20" 30-30 Win-shitter in the safe, PMC (that's how long ago it was) 150gr loads were lucky to get 2100fps over the chronograph, Winchester 170s were in the 2000s. Very unimpressive. 16 1/4" Trapper 30/30s are just plain LOUD too ... throw impressive fireballs though.

Barrels do indeed do strange things alright ... docked a 458WinMag from 24" to 22" and gained 35fps.
Cheers...
Con

[Hawkeye77]

Have i opened a small can of worms here??? Hahaha, its always good to see abit of debate!
Well i guess the only thing to do is get a 30-30 for now as its more practical for the moment and just get a 45-70 later on...

Another question that is sort of relevant: how expensive is it to shoot 357 and 44mag reloaded or otherwise, and what is the performance of these two cartridges in comparison to each other? I'm not thinking of getting a pistol cal to replace the 30-30 idea, im just wondering if they would be a viable and cheap option to practice levergunning? I know your going to say .22 is a cheaper choice and i know but i've already got enough .22s and i'm thinking a 357/44mag would be cheap and also useful for hunting more than just bunnies?
Thoughts?

Thanks,

Hawk

[curan]

Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons.........

What about a BLR?

Opens up a whole new range of calibres.........

or isn't it a "real" lever gun?

just asking (bloody hell KJB......where's that stirring emoticon?)

regards, curan

[CBorg]

a BLR or Miruko in 358 Win sounds like good medicine to me

[1kshot]

Hawk, I run both a 30/30 336 and a 45/70 1895 marlins and love em both, just depends what you want it for, I also got a couple of winies in diff calibres. If ya roll your our rounds and want to use the 45 you can feed it fairly cheap copper pills or go the cast option.

Curan, I had a browning a few years ago now and one note on them is although the Brownings are a very nice rifle and for out the box accuracy and probably the pick of the bunch but if you decide to go to a rimless cartrage eg like mine was in 30/06 you won’t get much life out of your brass they are VERY hard on shells and expect only about 10 reloads per case before you get head separation, then all the fun in the world trying to remove a stuck case with no head out of the chamber I think the problem stemmed from the way they were designed to take interchangeable barrels or something like that.

All the best
John

[Con]

Another question that is sort of relevant: how expensive is it to shoot 357 and 44mag reloaded or otherwise, and what is the performance of these two cartridges in comparison to each other? I'm not thinking of getting a pistol cal to replace the 30-30 idea, im just wondering if they would be a viable and cheap option to practice levergunning?

I'd buy a good Marlin in 357Mag in a heartbeat if the price was right. Using cast pills it'd be virtually free to run with its small powder charges. Make a nice fox whistling gun, but relatively heavy lead pills at slow speeds can bounce like crazy. The 44Mag would cost more to run, loaded to its potential in a Marlin it'd be giving the 30/30 a good run for its money to about 125yards. Energy figures don't do the 44Magnum justice, it's much more effective than its figures suggest.
Cheers...
Con