AusVarmint

G'day fella's, just wondering if there is any special considerations for loading for longer ranges and getting on paper etc.
My 9" twist barrel is not far away for my .223. So I picked up a box of 75gn A-max's to use out to 500 yards for a start, and worry about getting further late on.
I've only ever shot out to 300 meters at Leeton using 52gn HP's out of the 22/250 which has a 1/14 twist.
So the faster twist barrel and the longer heavier bullets is a whole new ball game to me, So is there anything different to do? or just follow the reloaders manual?

Ned?

All depends on how much effort you want to put in mate. That said reloading to BR standard doesnt change for longer ranges.

Hey Knackers,

Seems to me like you're pretty much on the ball as it is mate (heavier projectile/faster twist)

Settle in and throw some rounds downrange, then go from there.

Buy yourself some clay targets, leave 'em downrange, and then make 'em disappear.......

G'day Knackers,
well, couple of things that I think are important. I'm sure there will be others that strongly disagree!

1. load the bullet long and jam it into the rifling by around 0.010"

2. Weigh each charge on a mechanical beam to reduce vertical in groups. Accurately weighed charges do noticeabley reduce groups, especially in small capacity cases like the .223

3. Avoid electronic scales, I dont think they are as accurate as mechanical beam scales (watch the replies to this one )

4. Use the very best bullets you can buy (i've had good results with the 75 amax) and you might try the 77 Sierra MK as well, although I haven't used them

5. Use quality reloading dies, I'd try the wilson (sizer & seater) dies or redding competition FLS with bushing & wilson seater or even the redding comp seater if you can afford it. Quality = improved accuracy

6. Try the 75 amax's for hunting;.............. you'll like the reduced wind drift

and good luck!

cheerio Ned

Top advice from Ned Kelly; all I'll add (learned from all the stuff-ups I make) is to use the best components loaded to the best (tightest) tolerances you can achieve.
Oh, and don't get the "shakes" as you squeeze 'em off....

Ned, What about case prep? How far would you go with that, eg flash hole deburring, primer pocket uniforming, weight batching?

G'day Knackers,

I had loaded the 75 grn A-maxs at Leeton for Leanne to use in the 22-250 which also has a 1 in 9 twist. I had loaded them with 31 grns of BM2 receiving muzzle velocities of around 3050 fps.

I was also using the 105 grn A-max's in the 6mm 284. They are a very good projectile.

To get the seating depth I would chamber a dummy round, close the bolt and then slide a cleaning rod down the barrel and mark it where it stops.

Unless you've mutated into an Octopus since Leeton then may need an extra hand.

Unload the dummy round and place a projectile into the throat and ensure that it is firmly on the lanse, you will need support it with a Biro or Pencil, slide the cleaning rod back down and take another mark (It also helps if the rifle is placed on a rest and is pointed downward and take the mark with a very sharp pencil).

The distance between the two marks on the cleaning rod will give you an indication of how far you can increase your seating depth and like Ned said, back off ten thou. However just ensure that once loaded the projectile is sitting well within the case neck because you may find excessive run-out.

You will come to a point where you increase seating depth and sacrifice run-out or have no run-out and sacrifice seating depth.

I am in process of experimenting with the seating depth of the 6mm 284 and now looking for longer projectiles to compensate for the loss between the two.

Hope this helps.

Knackers...

I will be repeating a fair bit here.

1. Brass prep. Sort cases by weight, inside flash hole deburr, uniform pockets if crap brass, trim to length, chamfer inside and out, maybe neck turn.

2. Projectiles- sort by weight and Ogive....

3. Measure powder accurately.

4. Seat 0.010" into lands to start with.

For finding seating depth, I use an old case, put two cuts down the neck using a thin disk on a dremel tool. Clean up the burrs, run it through the neck die, and then push a projectile in the case by fingers. Leave it long, put it in the rifle, close the bolt. Take the case out, gentle, then measure the length. I call this the soft seat, and work from this. Also, grab a tool to measure the length to the ogive, not the bullet tip.

Out of the list up there, I do not do all steps. Depending on what projectiles you use, or brass, will dictate the amount of work you do. Use shit brass to start with, then extra work to get it up to standard. Use projectiles that are known to be poor, lots of sorting!

Cheers
AI

woob614271 wrote:.....and don't get the "shakes" as you squeeze 'em off....

Knackers,

To put this into perspective: In Small bore a movement of 2 thou in your front rest will reflect a quarter of an inch at 50 meters and thats without all the other variables such as humidity, air pressure and wind etc

Ackley Improved wrote:....put two cuts down the neck using a thin disk on a dremel tool....
AI

That sounds much easier will have to give that a go.

G'Day knackers,
for a factory rifle, I'd do the following case prep.

*flash hole deburr
*Uniform primer pockets (and clean pockets with uniformer when reloading)
* maintain the case length to within 0.005" (trim to shortest case length in batch) & deburr.

I dont weigh any case I use in competition. I have proven it to myself that it is a waste of time. Nor do I worry about case wall run out or even check loaded rounds for run out. Quality sizing & seating dies with quality brass should take care of that (assuming the chamber is cut true..........!)

Most important items are listed above: ignition and consistent bullet/neck tension.............which controls bullet "grip" and "release"

Bushing dies can adjust neck tension very easily if you have them, some loads like more; some like less bullet "grip".

If you have an ideal world, a tight neck chamber and neck turned cases helps a lot with much more even and consistent bullet "grip" or "release". That is the amount of force required to pull that bullet out of the case. If more work has to be done to move a bullet from any loaded round compared to the next, it means it changes the pressure curve and harmonics of the gun.

This is what I call "bad"

I believe if you can get the pressure vs time curve more consistent from shot to shot you will more likely to develope pin point accuracy due to the vibrations through the rifle being more consistent. The eveness of the grip/release of a bullet by the case is very important, much, much, more than the weight of a case ever will be.

So very even bullet grip and bullet release forces are what I call "good"

In a factory rifle where close tolerances are not the norm, so it it much harder to achieve consistient harmonics, but in an accurised/custom set up it seems to be the case.

As for setting bullet length.............
* I size a case, seat a bullet long so I push the bullet further into the case as the bolt closes
* remove and measure case oal with a bullet comparator and record length.
* Use a kinetic bullet puller to make the oal longer than seater setting, no need to remove it completely
* Re-seat it again, chamber, remove and measure again.
* repeat until you get consistent dimensions.

You will be surprised just how consistent you can get, I usually can get readings to be within 1 thou or so. It doesnt need to be that accurate, it is simply a starting point to compare all further seating depth settings for that bullet.

This is called the bullet jam figure, usable only by you with that rifle and barrel/bullet combo. New bullet; redo the measurements. Every fired 300+ rounds or so (as the throat erodes) check setting again, this will also give you a rough estimation of the throat wear over time too.

The beauty of this method is the grip lessens everytime you move the bullet until it has a nice "grip" that allows easy seating and easy push back for any bullet into the case.

By increasing the oal from the bullet jam figure, the longer case/bullet combo will help to align the bullet with the bore). Shortening it by around 0.015" means you are probably just off the rifling for a hunting load. I usually load all my comp loads to jam figure + 10 thou inch and know it is usually me missing a condition rather than the load not working. This probably gives around >95% of the accuracy the rifle is capable of. Miss reading the wind can more than double the size of the group or rifles grouping ability (aggregate group size)

The main point to remember is that shooter who always practices/competes always seems to place well or win............why? Because he knows his rifle/load, can read the wind, and has his shooting technique down pat.

Hope this helps, if not keep on asking!

Cheerio ned

Knackers,

I use the 75g A-Max's in my Savage 12VLP with a 1in7" twist for hunting. I have never tried long range target shooting however this is the load I use: 23.7gains of AR2208 and OAL 2.360". You will need to work up in your rifle of course.

Tempo