An observation with 2209.
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:05 pm
In the last few weeks i have ginned around with the Defiance and 260 Rem barrel before it gets sidelined for the 6mm Creedmoor barrel.
Some of you know i have many batches of ADI powders including 2209 dating back to the steel tin and paper label, to the latest plastic cannister stuff.
A month ago i loaded and tried 130 grain RDFs, 130 TMKs and 123 ELD Ms with 1980s 2209. The TMKs shot a bug hole, the RDFs were MOA and the 123s were undecided with 3 Libs and one each of Labor and Greens outliers. There was no load development, just ADI maximum load in Win cases for each of the pills.
Last weekend i shot with current lot 2209 and the exact same charge weights. The TMKs shot SSG pattern, the RDFs were unchanged and the 123s shot better than i was shooting. Not a good example of precision shooting but should have been bughole except for a wrong guess on the wind strength cutting a wide slot. The end result is the two batches are totally different in performance with the 123s running to just a tickle under 3100 fps with the new batch, a gain of a 100 fps from the earlier batch, as well as an increase of 50 fps in both the 130 grain pills. So i am assuming that the current lot is somewhat quicker. BUT, the velocity gain over the early batch using the 130 grain pills puts it on the mark the manuals and other sources say it should be but the 123s are a 100 fps over the relative data.
If that is confusing, simply the early batch lines up with the lighter 123s and velocity stated and the 130s are slow, then the new batch lines up with data for the 130s very closely but is considerably faster with the 123s.
The conclusion i get is that 2209 has changed, which many of us already knew, and lines up empirically very closely with the heavier pills. Unfortunately i didn't and don't use the 140 grain range of pills so i cannot make a determination there.
A while back i did a similar thing with 2208 in a 6BR. The getaway from that was drastically different as compaed to the 2209 trial where there were no pressure issues. With known load data from older batches that was transfered conservatively working up with newer lots was an exercise in how to destroy both cases, accuracy and lose velocity. At no point could i replicate known accuracy or velocity potentials of either barrel where some batches were so fast that the listed ADI maximum of 30.5 grains with a 107 grain pill was excessive and loosened primer pockets and as such i deemed those lots as outright dangerous. This is nothing new as many others have found similar results and why i always refer to either Re15 or 16 to anyone wanting more reliable results. I may mention that the M118 308 match load used in the US has been altered from Varget back to Re15. I'm not surprised.
Some of you know i have many batches of ADI powders including 2209 dating back to the steel tin and paper label, to the latest plastic cannister stuff.
A month ago i loaded and tried 130 grain RDFs, 130 TMKs and 123 ELD Ms with 1980s 2209. The TMKs shot a bug hole, the RDFs were MOA and the 123s were undecided with 3 Libs and one each of Labor and Greens outliers. There was no load development, just ADI maximum load in Win cases for each of the pills.
Last weekend i shot with current lot 2209 and the exact same charge weights. The TMKs shot SSG pattern, the RDFs were unchanged and the 123s shot better than i was shooting. Not a good example of precision shooting but should have been bughole except for a wrong guess on the wind strength cutting a wide slot. The end result is the two batches are totally different in performance with the 123s running to just a tickle under 3100 fps with the new batch, a gain of a 100 fps from the earlier batch, as well as an increase of 50 fps in both the 130 grain pills. So i am assuming that the current lot is somewhat quicker. BUT, the velocity gain over the early batch using the 130 grain pills puts it on the mark the manuals and other sources say it should be but the 123s are a 100 fps over the relative data.
If that is confusing, simply the early batch lines up with the lighter 123s and velocity stated and the 130s are slow, then the new batch lines up with data for the 130s very closely but is considerably faster with the 123s.
The conclusion i get is that 2209 has changed, which many of us already knew, and lines up empirically very closely with the heavier pills. Unfortunately i didn't and don't use the 140 grain range of pills so i cannot make a determination there.
A while back i did a similar thing with 2208 in a 6BR. The getaway from that was drastically different as compaed to the 2209 trial where there were no pressure issues. With known load data from older batches that was transfered conservatively working up with newer lots was an exercise in how to destroy both cases, accuracy and lose velocity. At no point could i replicate known accuracy or velocity potentials of either barrel where some batches were so fast that the listed ADI maximum of 30.5 grains with a 107 grain pill was excessive and loosened primer pockets and as such i deemed those lots as outright dangerous. This is nothing new as many others have found similar results and why i always refer to either Re15 or 16 to anyone wanting more reliable results. I may mention that the M118 308 match load used in the US has been altered from Varget back to Re15. I'm not surprised.
