.172" projectile lengths and weights

[billsshed]

Gents,
I am in the process of swaging up a new batch of .172" projectiles. I currently push them out of a 17HH.
As jackets are not readily available in Aust I draw down .22LR cases and these shoot a MOA without to many issues. Current fodder is 20 grain open tip flat base, OTFB. I will have to confirm velocity when the weather clears up but it is around 3500f/s. The jackets are .011" at the base.
Just because I can, I was going to tinker with 17 gn or even possibly lighter. Please note that you can not go to light as even with a 20gn projectile the jacket is almost 1/3 the weight @ 6.3gn. As this is a site that seems to have a few more small cal shooters, does anybody have any practical experience with jacket length VS weight of these lighter projectiles.
I know I could just trim up a jacket or twenty and seat a light core but as I have learnt since starting swaging, if you can get close prior to starting a new projectile it saves a lot of time swaging and loading only to find that they are junk.
If anybody has some NON poly tipped projectiles could they please measure them up.

Bill

[kickinback]

I can't help with the projectile dimensions but am very interested in the process. Don't be shy with a pic and story.


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[bimbo]

I can't help with the projectile dimensions but am very interested in the process. Don't be shy with a pic and story.


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What he said

[Camel]

And so am I. I have some Nosler 20gn HP shots and some 22gn Karl Kuhen (sp) HP that I can measure for you, give me an hour or two.
I also have some 17gn plastic tip projectiles pulled from Federal 17hmr, I could remove the point from one and measure its length as well if you like ???

[Tony Z]

Jacket length verse bullet weight is an enigma. Years ago i asked Dave Harrison to swage a 60 grain 6 mill bullet on his 8 1/2 ogive die using 0.825 jackets for one of my BR rifles that ran a Maddco 15 twist. The idea was lighter bullet sharper ogive more speed equals better result in wind. Apart from the fact they keyholed the theory was great. These bullets were later called ZeroLites, moved to around 62 grains, and were successfully used in competition by Mr and Mrs van Checkbook for a number of years. In a faster twist, 14 or quicker they were great.
Long story short if you use a given jacket length and decrease bullet weight, you need a faster twist rate. There is a program i have that asks for lead height from meplat that confirms this. Sounds odd but it is true.

[billsshed]

And so am I. I have some Nosler 20gn HP shots and some 22gn Karl Kuhen (sp) HP that I can measure for you, give me an hour or two.
I also have some 17gn plastic tip projectiles pulled from Federal 17hmr, I could remove the point from one and measure its length as well if you like ???

Thanks Camel,
Lengths for all of the above would be appreciated, and yes without the plastic tip.
Process in order of assembly: Please note that you have to be pretty anal in the cleaning and weighing department as each step can have an error and they accumulate with the end product. End product is within 0.2 of a grain.

Sort cases by head-stamp
Cut cases to rough length with small cut off saw
Tumble in SS pins to clean
Derim in swage press, finished OD is .220"
Draw case down to .168" OD, I do this in one step,
Trim case to desired length
Anneal at 450 deg C for 15 min and water quench to minimise oxidisation
Tumble again, ready for core seating and then weigh 20 cases to establish an average weight
Cut core for projectile from lead wire or cast the core to + 3 grains of target weight less jacket weight
Swage core to desired weight
Seat the core
Point form..... Tumble again if you want shiny projectiles......end!
There are a couple of lube and cleaning steps for the core and point form as well but they are minor steps but no less critical.
As you can see there is a lot of work that goes into making a projectile if you have to build the jacket as well, but I can build any weight and length with minimal ongoing costs. The cutting, trimming and drawing stages can be removed if building 50-55 gn .224 projectiles but you still have to cut and trim for the 40 gn hornet projectiles. Heavier projectiles in .224, I build out of .22mag or 17HMR cases.
This is not a hobby that you just fall into. It is more of an extension of reloading. You really have to consider if it is worth your time. The initial outlay in a single set of dies was scary compared to reloading dies,but just like reloading you tend to collect things along the way. If you add it all up and total the cost you may never have started.
I do not take my time into account when building projectiles for my self. If I did I could never justify the numbers. Although, with the way projectile prices are going, swaging is looking cheap. I enjoy the flexibility of swaging and half the fun is building the jigs and fixtures to make each step a little quicker and accurate.

Jacket forming stages

image.jpeg (45.05 KiB) Viewed 588 times

Bill

[Camel]

Lucky I saw this post, forgot to bring up the bit of paper, just went and grabbed it :

Nosler shots 20gn hp is .481 for 5 measured
Karl K 22gn hp is .513 for 5 measured
17gn pulled from federal premium 17gn bt with the tit removed is .393, only measured one as I only have about 50 of them.

Thanks for the explanation, WOW there is a lot of work going into it.

[billsshed]

Thanks Camel,
Looks like I can shorten my jackets by a large margin. My current 20 grainers have a point that is void of lead and only the bearing surface has anything in it. Still shot MOA though!
Anybody want to try some of the 17gn projectiles when I have them done? If so, you have to post the results, good or bad with the technical details.
This group was shot with no development and I am sure I can improve on it with a bit of time but as I only need minute of critter head it is fine for my shooting requirements. It looks like there is a lot of space between holes but they are small holes!


Bill

[Camel]

No worries mate. Ill give em a run in the 17/222, don't know if Ill be able to get speed reading, but should be able to get a reasonable estimate. Let me know when you want a test done.

[Camel]

Have a heap of empty 22 cases, all the same brand, but uncleaned here if you want them, dunno how many but there is two and a half 500gm yoghurt containers full.

[billsshed]

Have a heap of empty 22 cases, all the same brand, but uncleaned here if you want them, dunno how many but there is two and a half 500gm yoghurt containers full.

I am good for .22 cases. Once I get them done I will let you know.

Bill

[Branxhunter]

I have half a packet of the old Rem 25gn power-lokt HPs. Measured five which ranged from 0.556-0.558"

Marcus

[billsshed]

Lucky I saw this post, forgot to bring up the bit of paper, just went and grabbed it :

Nosler shots 20gn hp is .481 for 5 measured
Karl K 22gn hp is .513 for 5 measured
17gn pulled from federal premium 17gn bt with the tit removed is .393, only measured one as I only have about 50 of them.

Thanks for the explanation, WOW there is a lot of work going into it.

Made up 5 trial 17gn projectiles today to get the jacket and core weights. They are .405"long when point formed. Dam they are short! Look alright in the 17HH case and have enough bearing surface for the case neck to hold the projectile. Have trimmed the cases to length and they are in the tumbler getting the burrs off and the internals cleaned up.
Bill

[Camel]

Sounding more and more interesting as it goes along. Keep the reports coming, a photo would be good.

[billsshed]

I have half a packet of the old Rem 25gn power-lokt HPs. Measured five which ranged from 0.556-0.558"

Marcus

Thanks Marcus,
I will add it to my little data base

Bill